No no no and fuck no. Fuck you taylor and your US cribbed bigotry
Im not happy with Labour in the slightest.
But please, we have to keep the bar from being dragged lower like the dumbasses over the Pacific did.
Keep the bigots out. Keep the Harpy away from power.
"VOTE FOR ME, I WILL STRIKE DOWN THE SEX DISCRIMINATION ACT " is pretty on brand for the liberal party when you think about it.
I just don’t get the whole bathroom outrage thing. Look, I’m a bloke, so have NFI, but don’t women’s bathrooms have stalls? So who is looking? Who cares?
Seriously, I wouldn’t care if somebody came into the gents and squatted over a urinal to pee.
We are there to pee and/or poo. And get out as fast as possible. And I do, what, 98% of that in my own home anyways? Are people living in these public bathrooms 24x7 or something to be offended?
I just don’t get it.
Sexual assaults are overwhelmingly carried out by males on females. Sex separated changing rooms/bathrooms/toilets drastically reduce the chance of a woman (or girl) being sexually assaulted.
If you give males the ability to enter female changing rooms by saying they’re women, guess who will absolutely jump at that chance? Sex offenders and perverts.
This does not seem to be the case. For instance: https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/safety-in-restrooms-and-facilites/
https://x.com/katebmwriting/status/2008096432771768355
This is what you get when you give perverts and sex offenders direct access to women’s spaces.
Don’t have x so can’t view it. If you have responded to a study with a single Twitter post though the mate… What are ya doin…
It’s a video of a guy being caught jacking off in the women’s toilets.
As someone with family members in academia, I know first hand how 99% of studies are a joke. They’re generally “pay to get the result you ask for”, and “my thesis is true because I’ve just excluded all the data that proves it’s false”.
As someone with family members in academia, I know first hand how 99% of studies are a joke.
As someone who works in academia, I know that that is bullshit.
Studies are generally paid for by someone to support a desired outcome. You deny this?
Damn, at a glance scrolling through my feed I thought that was James May
Same.
Don’t go the way of my country, trans rights are human rights!
We’ve been told by the “progressives” that gender and sex are different things for years, so there should be no complaints if the Sex Discrimination Act is reverted to be about Sex and not “gender identity”.
It’s all a distraction to keep us plebs fighting each other instead of the ruling class.
This is such a non-issue. Let people identify how they like, try call people by their self-identified gender. Who is the fuck cares that someone who’s sex is female at birth is a man, vice versa, or otherwise. Bathrooms should be all-gender anyway, with stalls with complete walls from wall to ceiling. We don’t solve sexual assaults with separate bathrooms, the notion that we do is absurd.
Fucking insane that people fall for this bullshit, and also that progressives waste their time fighting with them over this.
I really wish we started treating this as the common sense issue that is. To me, women are women if they say they’re woman, men are men, etc. ffs move on.
There’s no war but the class war, and trans people are just the latest “other” for the ruling class to focus on to keep us divided.
The court ruling sounds reasonable. Cis women might not be comfortable around trans women in female only spaces and saying “just get over it” isn’t really progressive. Denial that there is a genuine conflict of interest here is also counterproductive.
We also need to recognize that the median voter is supportive of trans rights in general but tends not to be on specific issues. Trying to brute force it with government policy will likely have the opposite effect.
The concern is if this ends up extending the ability to exclude trans women from women-only spaces to places which are “generally” gender segregated like bathrooms or team sports. If we end up without measures that protect the right of trans women to participate in society then that would be unacceptable.
The first paragraph here sounds unnervingly like an attempt to rationalise bigotry.
People are uncomfortable with a lot of things and it’s usually their problem, not everyone elses.
It’s not bigotry for women to be uncomfortable around men in women only space. While I try my best to treat trans women as women, it’s not right to demand that women feel as comfortable around trans women as they do around cis women.
It’s not bigotry for women to be uncomfortable around men in women only space
#AND THERE IT IS.
Begone, bigot.
If you think this is bigotry then you don’t know what bigotry is.
Tenderizer literally called transwomen men. That’s pretty textbook bigotry. Not sure what you’re complaining about here, apart from the fact that Taleya called it what it was.
Trans women are male. Saying so isn’t bigotry. Anyway that’s not even what that person said, so it’s definitely not bigotry.
I did not. I was referred to cis men in that sentence, to explain why the term bigotry doesn’t apply to matters of privacy. Either way treating that as some kind of gotcha is so very expected.
Oh dear. Please don’t try that martyred crap. There is a very clear line of conversational progression here and you literally said "It’s not bigotry for women to be uncomfortable around men in women only space. "
I understand that you’re coming at this from a reasonable place, but this comment seems unusually hostile in a way your previous comments weren’t. I understand what you’re saying about the role of emotions, but we have to decide as a society that your emotions end where others’ rights begin, otherwise we could go down a very dark path. Racists could easily argue that banning indigenous ppl from white society is valid because they have their own indigenous communities.
My tone was probably a bit harsh because I was getting frustrated with how dogmatic the “trans women are women” crowd is. Yes we should individually treat them as such, the law should also treat them as such, but drawing a legal line that they should be treated as such is a step too far.
The needs to trans people should be accommodated. But the preferences of the more dogmatic trans people should not be respected at any cost, there has to be room for another’s comfort.
I am a trans woman myself so I understand how they feel. We’re an inherently small part of the population and there’s an extreme sense of vulnerability that comes with that. I think you’d understand if you were part of the demographic. I’m sorry that you feel frustrated though, truly, because I know that you mean well.
Once again I understand what you’re saying and acknowledge that you’re not coming at this from a place of malice (at least that’s how I see it). That being said, I’ve never met anyone who actually had some of kind phobia of people assigned male at birth (AMAB), or trans women specifically, in the context that you’re describing. I think it’s a wedge issue that causes people to feel strongly without there really being much rational basis for it, which I think you acknowledged to an extent? We can’t base laws off feelings or extremely rare cases where the person’s true intentions can be challenged. In my experience, the only people who express any kind of fear of AMAB people are activists involved in groups that claim to focus on women’s issues who have an incentive to advocate for transphobia. Sometimes they have financial connections to American evangelical groups, that sorta thing. Rape survivors don’t tend to have that opinion in my experience, although maybe you’ve met some who thought differently, idk. Either way, I have to say from a personal experience that I don’t want my rights taken away based off such weak arguments, and in the case of the US and UK, they rarely stop at segregated spaces, they usually try to remove us completely from public life in an attempt to force us to detransition.
We’ve seen as a result of this court ruling in favour of trans rights that Minns is calling for changes around prisons and sports. Then again in the UK we’re seeing a court ruling against trans rights do the same (although UK Labour, and especially health secretary Wes Streeting, are particularly vile human beings so that might not be a factor).
Based on these two data points, we see trans rights regress when there is a highly publicized court ruling. Keeping matters of trans rights out of the domain of the courts seems like the best way to prevent this from happening.
Enshrining the most important trans rights into law (bathrooms, healthcare, prisons, and general anti-discrimination protections) while leaving issues like gender segregated social activities up to the organizer’s discretion is the best way to protect trans rights.
Fair enough, I agree with that. It’s disillusioning that the only way to be safe is to be invisible.
It’s irrational to fear people identified as male at birth whose testosterone is suppressed
CisWhite women might not be comfortable aroundtransblack women infemale onlysegregated spaces and saying ‘just get over it’ isn’t really progressive.Also, what “true conflict of interest” exists, other than people with prejudice feeling uncomfortable? Trans people are less likely to commit crime than cis people on the whole, with the main exception being more likely to be charged with crimes realted to sex work due to unemployment.
The racial analogue doesn’t fit. The existence of women-only spaces isn’t meant to discriminate against men because men are provided comparable alternatives, and they’re only discriminatory against trans women because they’re not provided an alternative.
Trans women are women, but forcing women to emotionally react to trans women as if they were cis women is not a decision we can or should make for them. Feelings don’t care about your facts.
I’ll try to come up with some conflicts of interest of the top of my head:
- Women generally prefer restrooms to be gender segregated as a matter of privacy. Trans women who don’t have the same eldritch horrors of bodies likely don’t fall under the same privacy grouping. Some places have taken the step of making all restrooms unisex but women often don’t like it when that happens.
- Lesbian romantic events exist for women to meet other women, and while generally we should treat trans women as women, in no universe can or should we impose that onto people’s sexuality.
- Someone who’s had a traumatic experience with men and goes to a women-only space, only to discover that someone they’ve been talking to has been AMAB all along. It could be a healing or re-traumatizing experience, but it shouldn’t be imposed upon them as a matter of trans inclusion.
- While trans women aren’t necessarily better at sports than cis women, when they are it’s reasonable to think their birth sex might play a part (whether right or wrong). That thought alone discourages participation in women’s sports.
The racial analogue fits because we’re another minority group that faces discrimination. Hope that helps.
Seperate but equal, hmm, where have I heard that before?
What do your hypothetical women’s emotions have to do with segregation?
Trans women are women but we shouldn’t be allowed in women’s restrooms because we look different?
Trans women are women but what about lesbians? Because we love different?
Trans women are women but what if a women thinks I might have been a man once and freaks out about it? Because we are different?
Why should these hypothetical women’s feelings excuse discriminating against and segregating an entire demographic of women?
I know no woman who has said trans women in the bathroom make her uncomfortable. I’ve never even seen one.
A lesbians dating preference may be for gold star, should we ban women who have slept with men from lesbian spaces? A lesbian can just choose to not fucking date trans women.
The thought that someone may have been a man once. How horrible. What if she was raped by a woman? Should we ban women from women’s spaces to protect survivors?
Do you have evidence for that claim? I promise there are enough factors discouraging participation in women’s sports, funding, historical norms, cultural expectations, direct sexism, existing power structures, training opportunities, school opportunities, etc, so forth.
If i sign off as a transgender does it invalidate my feelings as a woman?
Trans women are women, but forcing women to emotionally react to trans women as if they were cis women is not a decision we can or should make for them. Feelings don’t care about your facts.
Not to medicalise this this shit but you can make the exact same argument for anyone who’s encountering a high needs neurodivergent, or someone who requires assistive devices, or someone who is heavily scarred, etc. Because the issues here are “I don’t like how they deviate from what I think X people should look like” and “I am making preconceived potential behaviours up to be “frightened” of” aka Bias.
And they can both go square back up the arse they came from. It’s not transwomen’s fault your parents never taught you humanity was diverse
Two sides of lemmy:
Trans women are women
And this kind of “I swear I’m not a republican but trans women aren’t real women so it’s different” opinion…
TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN
What is a woman? Can you answer that without using circular definitions?
Edit: once again, the simple question has everyone stumped.
Societal concepts of women certainly come from biology originally, there would be no concept of sex if there was no Y chromosome, but honestly to me: a woman is whoever identifies as woman. Just like sexuality, it’s just an innate part of who you are. Most women are female and birth, but I don’t give slightest fuck that there are women who aren’t female at birth. Just like I don’t give a fuck that there are men who are attracted to other men.
Like who cares. If your birth certificate says your name is Steve, but you go by Paul, who the fuck am I to protest that it’s not your name given to you by your parents?
The question doesn’t stump me, I just think it’s a colossal waste of time.
You can identify however you bloody like, why should I care? As long as you’re understanding if I mix up your pronouns, then it affects me literally not at all
Hormones are a reasonable line to draw it on, as it is testosterone that makes men strong and which makes some men dangerous
Hormones? No lol. That’s not a reasonable line at all. That’s one of the least reasonable lines to draw it on.
