Did I ever say Russia good? No Russia as bad as any nation state. NATO definitely bad. What I’m saying is that this war was manufactured by NATO, this has been confirmed by people who were in power, you don’t need to take my word for it. Look what Merkel herself said. The military industrial complex and a trillion dollar budget can only be legitimised if you have perpetual enemies to fight. The people of eastern Europe are just being used as cannon fodder for capitalist interests, just like Russians are cannon fodder for nationalist/capitalist interests.
No, you just parrot Russian propaganda. Merkel is Russia’s lapdog and made German industry totally dependant on Russian resources sold under market prices. Whatever you claim it is Russians invading Ukraine not the other way around.
Skip about an hour in there is the former head of sociology department at at Max Planck pretty much saying the exact same thing I did, what I said is widely accepted. The United States has been planning this war since the 1990s. It sucks that for a change a European country is the site of imperialist exploitation but it was bound to happen.
It’s funny because there are plenty of professors former CIA agents former american diplomats former military personal who agree with my view, while the only people who peddle your narrative are imperialist propagandists who write for western newspapers.
Even if that were the case (which it is not, but I don’t see a chance we could agree on that); is NATO army in Russia, or is Russia in a sovereign state to which it gave security guarantees? Was Crimea out of anti NATO necessity as well?
Yes Crimea had to do with Ukraine wanting to revoke the right for the Russian navy to use the port there.
There is nothing to agree or disagree about just historical facts and the fact of how US and NATO policy works. NATO was founded to destroy the USSR Europe was always going to be the sacrificial lamb if the cold war were to get hot. That hasn’t changed.
Ukraine wanting to revoke the right for the Russian navy to use the port there
Ah yes, so much respect for a sovereign state and it’s decisions. Should all European states do what Russia wants? Is servitude to an imperial mega state which has occupied your region before your concept of freedom?
Europe was always going to be the sacrificial lamb if the cold war were to get hot
You do know, that USSR did attempt to invade central/western Europe and occupied countries in central Europe long before NATO even existed? It’s as if, even if evil, NATO was built using Europeans justified fear of Russian imperial ambitions…
Here something else you can watch a former east German spy who worked in NATO confirming what I told you.
Edit:
Look I get it it sucks that Ukraine is currently being sacrificed for western corporations but I hate to tell you that the EU and The USA don’t really give a fuck about the lives of Ukrainians you’re pawns in an imperial game.
No, I meant earlier invasions (1, 2) and post-WW2 occupation of central Europe (1, 2, and so on). But in fairness I could even for WW2.
The west should definitely stop being imperalist.
Yes, absolutely. But so should Russia. The difference here is probably about whether or not one considers Ukrainians to have a right to self determination. You seem to be keen on the idea of Slavs having so such right against Russia.
Idk why you keep responding to me,
I’m offended by people supporting murdering of my neighbours.
spamming me with your ideological takes.
Which in particular of my claims could use a source?
former east German spy
So someone deeply formatted by the “communist” security services believes that he’s side was right? Should I put it against an ex-CIA operative claiming they were right to set up banana republics? Should we also discuss how the same services dealt with internal opposition1? You seriously consider a random apparatchik to be a proper source for any information?
But I could agree with the general idea. Even if for someone it was not earlier, by now it’s very much clear the US administration in, for lack of better word, playing against Europe. In your style I could mess around and claim that’s because of a colour revolution (1), which set up a corrupt oligarchic pro-Russian leader (1), but that’s beside the point.
Still, for example Polish experience of Russia, so some 100 years of occupation (1), a mentioned invasion (1), second mentioned invasion, in cooperation with nazis (1), some genocidal cleansing (1), followed by 50 years of de facto occupation (1) might convince one that it’s better to side with a distant empire against it. People like you like to claim that they have a “geopolitics” or “realpolitic” take on things. This is one, it’s a cynical play of one superpower against the other to have any chance to rebuild after occupation. I could dig up a lengthy youtube essay on that if you were actually interested. You somehow think you’re one of a niche group to understand that. Seem the French committed a dramatic share of their state budget to create their own nuclear program just for fun, since they could have just trusted US.
Bottom line is; the people who you deny any agency are not dying for western corporations, even if one can draw the interests. They are dying to protect their families and communities. Because, as opposed to you, we know Russia for what it is. We know Russians who decided to escape, we know ones who support that state, we’ve been to Russia. And because it, again, invaded the lands where people understand what that means.
Oh and finally; if Ukraine were a NATO trap against Russia - it worked. Russia is already crippled and failing, yet still it would not leave the lands it has invaded, such is its imperialist, expansionist mentality.
So in the link you posted, isn’t a good example of Russian imperialism, seeing as Communism wasn’t really exclusively Russian movement. They seem more like incidents that happened during the Russian civil war. I don’t know enough about the background of the Polish republic, but from my very brief reading about it it seems as though around the same time Poland was fighting both the Czech Republic and Ukraine.
As I said I’m sure internal Polish politics were pretty crazy in the 1920s and 1930s like everywhere in Europe but the example you gave me seems like a very bad example of Russian imperialism.
I know all about Zersetzung and the shitty things security services do. The same thing goes for the United States. I’m not saying that in the immediate and personal sense people are sacrificing themselves for American corporations, in the structural sense they are though. Just like the Russian soldiers are dying to secure the profits for their oligarchic class, it’s truly the same shit on both sides with various posters on the internet choosing teams. I’ve said this 100x but you still don’t get it I don’t support Putin, I just don’t think everything he’s saying about the war in Ukraine is a lie.
One way to avoid war is not to participate in it. Which is why I think its strange that conscientious objectors are harassed in Ukraine. To me that shows that this war isn’t really in the interest of the average person. If you want to call it an imperialist war that’s fine, but please use the correct term for imperialism, which is when capitalists start a war to secure profits.
But you and I just have a fundamentally different view of how the world works so whatever I’m not going to keep arguing with you because it’s pointless.
Did I ever say Russia good? No Russia as bad as any nation state. NATO definitely bad. What I’m saying is that this war was manufactured by NATO, this has been confirmed by people who were in power, you don’t need to take my word for it. Look what Merkel herself said. The military industrial complex and a trillion dollar budget can only be legitimised if you have perpetual enemies to fight. The people of eastern Europe are just being used as cannon fodder for capitalist interests, just like Russians are cannon fodder for nationalist/capitalist interests.
No, you just parrot Russian propaganda. Merkel is Russia’s lapdog and made German industry totally dependant on Russian resources sold under market prices. Whatever you claim it is Russians invading Ukraine not the other way around.
Lol you’re an idiot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Wmx-zETLs
Skip about an hour in there is the former head of sociology department at at Max Planck pretty much saying the exact same thing I did, what I said is widely accepted. The United States has been planning this war since the 1990s. It sucks that for a change a European country is the site of imperialist exploitation but it was bound to happen.
It’s funny because there are plenty of professors former CIA agents former american diplomats former military personal who agree with my view, while the only people who peddle your narrative are imperialist propagandists who write for western newspapers.
Even if that were the case (which it is not, but I don’t see a chance we could agree on that); is NATO army in Russia, or is Russia in a sovereign state to which it gave security guarantees? Was Crimea out of anti NATO necessity as well?
Yes Crimea had to do with Ukraine wanting to revoke the right for the Russian navy to use the port there.
There is nothing to agree or disagree about just historical facts and the fact of how US and NATO policy works. NATO was founded to destroy the USSR Europe was always going to be the sacrificial lamb if the cold war were to get hot. That hasn’t changed.
Ah yes, so much respect for a sovereign state and it’s decisions. Should all European states do what Russia wants? Is servitude to an imperial mega state which has occupied your region before your concept of freedom?
You do know, that USSR did attempt to invade central/western Europe and occupied countries in central Europe long before NATO even existed? It’s as if, even if evil, NATO was built using Europeans justified fear of Russian imperial ambitions…
Huh? You mean ww2? The west should definitely stop being imperalist.
Idk why you keep responding to me, you refuse to give any sources for what you say, you just keep spamming me with your ideological takes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzb_ZasL7sc
Here something else you can watch a former east German spy who worked in NATO confirming what I told you.
Edit: Look I get it it sucks that Ukraine is currently being sacrificed for western corporations but I hate to tell you that the EU and The USA don’t really give a fuck about the lives of Ukrainians you’re pawns in an imperial game.
No, I meant earlier invasions (1, 2) and post-WW2 occupation of central Europe (1, 2, and so on). But in fairness I could even for WW2.
Yes, absolutely. But so should Russia. The difference here is probably about whether or not one considers Ukrainians to have a right to self determination. You seem to be keen on the idea of Slavs having so such right against Russia.
I’m offended by people supporting murdering of my neighbours.
Which in particular of my claims could use a source?
So someone deeply formatted by the “communist” security services believes that he’s side was right? Should I put it against an ex-CIA operative claiming they were right to set up banana republics? Should we also discuss how the same services dealt with internal opposition1? You seriously consider a random apparatchik to be a proper source for any information? But I could agree with the general idea. Even if for someone it was not earlier, by now it’s very much clear the US administration in, for lack of better word, playing against Europe. In your style I could mess around and claim that’s because of a colour revolution (1), which set up a corrupt oligarchic pro-Russian leader (1), but that’s beside the point. Still, for example Polish experience of Russia, so some 100 years of occupation (1), a mentioned invasion (1), second mentioned invasion, in cooperation with nazis (1), some genocidal cleansing (1), followed by 50 years of de facto occupation (1) might convince one that it’s better to side with a distant empire against it. People like you like to claim that they have a “geopolitics” or “realpolitic” take on things. This is one, it’s a cynical play of one superpower against the other to have any chance to rebuild after occupation. I could dig up a lengthy youtube essay on that if you were actually interested. You somehow think you’re one of a niche group to understand that. Seem the French committed a dramatic share of their state budget to create their own nuclear program just for fun, since they could have just trusted US.
Bottom line is; the people who you deny any agency are not dying for western corporations, even if one can draw the interests. They are dying to protect their families and communities. Because, as opposed to you, we know Russia for what it is. We know Russians who decided to escape, we know ones who support that state, we’ve been to Russia. And because it, again, invaded the lands where people understand what that means.
Oh and finally; if Ukraine were a NATO trap against Russia - it worked. Russia is already crippled and failing, yet still it would not leave the lands it has invaded, such is its imperialist, expansionist mentality.
So in the link you posted, isn’t a good example of Russian imperialism, seeing as Communism wasn’t really exclusively Russian movement. They seem more like incidents that happened during the Russian civil war. I don’t know enough about the background of the Polish republic, but from my very brief reading about it it seems as though around the same time Poland was fighting both the Czech Republic and Ukraine.
Also this happened? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Coup_(Poland)
As I said I’m sure internal Polish politics were pretty crazy in the 1920s and 1930s like everywhere in Europe but the example you gave me seems like a very bad example of Russian imperialism.
I know all about Zersetzung and the shitty things security services do. The same thing goes for the United States. I’m not saying that in the immediate and personal sense people are sacrificing themselves for American corporations, in the structural sense they are though. Just like the Russian soldiers are dying to secure the profits for their oligarchic class, it’s truly the same shit on both sides with various posters on the internet choosing teams. I’ve said this 100x but you still don’t get it I don’t support Putin, I just don’t think everything he’s saying about the war in Ukraine is a lie.
One way to avoid war is not to participate in it. Which is why I think its strange that conscientious objectors are harassed in Ukraine. To me that shows that this war isn’t really in the interest of the average person. If you want to call it an imperialist war that’s fine, but please use the correct term for imperialism, which is when capitalists start a war to secure profits.
https://youtu.be/Nk7HUF_dQlg
But you and I just have a fundamentally different view of how the world works so whatever I’m not going to keep arguing with you because it’s pointless.