As a poc, for as long as I can remember, I find tankies to be extremely tone deaf as if they speak for people of colour who either have experience living in a communist state or living next to one. For example, I am originally from the Far East, and while I don’t agree with American military presence because they occasionally cause disruption to locals, it is simply out of geopolitical necessity and by explicit permission from the country to host American troops. Because guess why? Those of us from democratic countries are living next to Marxist-Leninist countries being threatening. China is trying to occupy an entire body of ocean and squatting within 200 nautical miles from Philippines’ internationally recognised legal territory. China is waterhosing both Filipino and Vietnamese fishermen, and then sending their own armed-to-the-teeth fishing vessels to monopolise fishing in the area. Japan is having a similar water territorial row with China. South Korea is living next to North Korea and I don’t need to elaborate their situations.

When I bring all those up to tankies, they go on conspiratorial mental gymnastics that these countries are being coerced by the US both militarily and economically. But i then ask them the rhetorical question if they have actually asked Filipino, Vietnamese, Japanese and Koreans what they think of China-- it’s all crickets. They go on ad hominem that I am a white Western bootlicking capitalist. When I tell that I am actually Asian, they go quiet! Like, as if they speak for people who actually have lived experience being next to a communist behemoth that don’t respect democracy! If I were white, they would probably go on with ad hominem, which I will go on more details in later paragraph.

I get that tankies took up anti colonial struggles as well, but they became the very thing they rail against, although frankly in a comical way. They patronise the global south and other non-Western nations as if they don’t have their own agency. It’s the red version of “white man’s burden”. That said, they convince themselves that those outside the West are brainwashed. Either tankies are totally ignorant of geopolitics and differing views from wider cultures, or wilfully ignorant. Being so tone deaf, I am convinced that they are actually Westerners living a middle class life or at least not struggling-- considering most of them are terminally online so they have nothing better to do.

Additionally, I have immigrated to Europe. I find tankies refuse to recognise that Europe is not one homogeneous place. Countries like Poland, Ireland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, the Baltics were under imperial and colonial rule by bigger neighbours in the past. And yet, tankies think all white Europeans are guilty of colonialism and imperialism, despite many having been victims like those from non-Western countries. I got banned in one of their instances when I pointed this out. I don’t know what their background is, but if most of the tankies are actually white folks, that is a weird self-hatred to have.

Witnessing all this, this is like the tankie version of “Get Out”. The white knighting from tankies is cringe inducing kinda like with liberals. This is why I appreciate Slavoj Zizek making the same observation and commentary because he has a tacit licence to say such things. He is an Eastern European immigrant who suffered from imperialism and has broad and diverse lived experience in both capitalist and communist societies, unlike terminally online tankies who are probably actually middle class and never have been in a communist state.

  • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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    6 months ago

    I don’t get how someone could be like “don’t read the bad books” and not pause in thier criticism of authoritarianism that they in fact are being authoritarian.

    So maybe you’ve misunderstood my point, or maybe you’re projecting what you think my point is onto me.

    I am not saying “don’t read the bad books”. I am saying “don’t read the books of bad authors”, and in that context only from some very limited sources. For instance, I would also recommend that people not read Mein Kampf.

    Lenin’s authoritarianism could have reasonably been a response to the brutal authoritarianism of the Tsar

    This is like excusing the behavior of an abusive father because his father was also abusive. We can understand the source of the behavior, certainly, but we do not excuse it, treat it as acceptable, nor should we take advice on social structure from such a person.

    Your “Lenin doesn’t account for older forms of imperialism”

    I said no such thing. You are putting words in my mouth.

    What I said was that imperialism is NOT a function of capitalism. They are distinct and separate concepts. There might be overlap in symptoms, but that does not make them the same thing or causally linked to each other in any particular way.

    what his actual argument is, which is pretty undeniable.

    Don’t care, for the reason stated above.

    Its just really hard for me to read you have such strong dismissive opinions, so much to tell others not to even go near the subject

    Again, not the subject, the author.

    You’re entitled to strong feelings, contradictory beliefs, and critical opposition to whatever you feel is necessary.

    Well thank you so much for your permission.

    But at least be honest about it.

    I have been very blunt, direct and honest. You have misinterpreted what I said, either intentionally or unintentionally, and have generated straw men so that you can argue against them.

    You claim to understand Lenin’s theories enough to decommend or even comment on

    Again, I have claimed no such thing, and also don’t care to become able to claim any such thing. If someone were making social or economic arguments based on Mein Kampf I would also ignore them.

    And yes, I’m aware I just brought this into Godwin’s Law territory, but frankly it’s justified.

    • Juice@midwest.social
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      6 months ago

      Lenin isn’t Hitler dude, if Lenin was Hitler the Fascists would like him. I bet these Tankies hate sub’s are full of nascent and committed fascists. So I’m glad you’re comparing Lenin to Hitler as if that was a bad thing, it demonstrates there might be something salvageable in that rats nest of political understanding.

      It just always chills me seeing propagandists and agitationalists run round and round in circles screeching about how evil these caricature regimes were without a single shred of actual evidence. Sneering at Tankies has become a form of self medication for a lot of centrists, a form of entertainment. Its like watching fox news and getting riled up about trans bathrooms or whatever.

      All I’m saying is there are actual good criticisms of Lenin that you could learn and contribute to, but because in your own life there isn’t anything that challenges your preconceptions about the subject at all, then you think your beliefs on the subject is the same thing as objective truth. And I doubt I’ll be able to disabuse you of it anytime soon.

      See ya around.