That’s not accurate. It’s not about “winning”, it’s about mitigating losses so that the real methods of change can be more successful.
This new quote still does not vindicate lesser-evilism the way you seem to think it does;
And again, that quote was directed towards Germans, who already had popular leftist parties. The principle is thus:
Lenin is saying communists must soberly assess where the masses are and tailor their platform accordingly
In Germany at the beginning of the 20th century, that tailored platform was one thing. In modern America, it is a very different thing. Meeting the working class where they are means meeting them to the right of progressive liberalism. When that fact changes, so will the appropriate platform.
Meeting people where they are means starting from their present consciousness in order to raise it, not endorsing the blue fascist because the red fascist is worse.
It’s not a matter of “endorsement”, it’s strategic mitigation. Where the masses are, in terms of class consciousness, is center-right at best. Raising that consciousness is going to necessarily pass through liberalism, progressivism, democratic socialism, etc. It’s very difficult to drastically shift the perspective of hundreds of millions of people. That will take time, decades if not generations. Blue “fascists” are slower than red fascists, which means less damage in that period of consciousness-raising. Again, baby tigers vs adult tigers.
It’s not about endorsement, it’s about choosing the easier enemy to defeat.
Honestly again I’m not interested in debating the point at large even if I disagree completely you should feel free to continue to believe what you do I just think you should use quotes that back up what you’re saying as opposed to ones that are entirely about communist parties running their own candidates as a means of agitation and absolutely 100% not about voting for the kautskyites or reactionaries that might be nicer managers.
I think you misunderstand my point in quoting Lenin. I support my decision based on my own reasoning. Yes, I extend Lenin’s argument to encompass actions that suit the class-consciousness of the American masses, but the larger point of quoting Lenin is just to show that disparaging anti-electoralism has significant precedent on the left. Banning it is bad policy.
And again Leninist style electoralism and what you’re advocating are 2 entirely different things even if both are technically electoralism and as far as I’m aware only what you’re advocating for and advocating for electoralism as a means to make meaningful change is what people take issue with.
what you’re advocating for and advocating for electoralism as a means to make meaningful change
Two completely different things. Not even remotely related, except for the mechanism of voting. The problem is people keep trying to treat them like the same thing.
Again I’m not treating them as the same thing hence the “and”. They are 2 separate kinds of/views on electoralism that many see as harmful in comparison to the Leninist view.
Depends on who you ask. I think that many of the people affected by Graham Totenkopf Planters “fun adventure” or Copmala Holocaust Harris abhorrent history etc. might disagree with enabling this behaviour as acceptable in any way even if it is the “lesser evil” as not being harmful.
That’s not accurate. It’s not about “winning”, it’s about mitigating losses so that the real methods of change can be more successful.
And again, that quote was directed towards Germans, who already had popular leftist parties. The principle is thus:
In Germany at the beginning of the 20th century, that tailored platform was one thing. In modern America, it is a very different thing. Meeting the working class where they are means meeting them to the right of progressive liberalism. When that fact changes, so will the appropriate platform.
It’s not a matter of “endorsement”, it’s strategic mitigation. Where the masses are, in terms of class consciousness, is center-right at best. Raising that consciousness is going to necessarily pass through liberalism, progressivism, democratic socialism, etc. It’s very difficult to drastically shift the perspective of hundreds of millions of people. That will take time, decades if not generations. Blue “fascists” are slower than red fascists, which means less damage in that period of consciousness-raising. Again, baby tigers vs adult tigers.
It’s not about endorsement, it’s about choosing the easier enemy to defeat.
Honestly again I’m not interested in debating the point at large even if I disagree completely you should feel free to continue to believe what you do I just think you should use quotes that back up what you’re saying as opposed to ones that are entirely about communist parties running their own candidates as a means of agitation and absolutely 100% not about voting for the kautskyites or reactionaries that might be nicer managers.
I think you misunderstand my point in quoting Lenin. I support my decision based on my own reasoning. Yes, I extend Lenin’s argument to encompass actions that suit the class-consciousness of the American masses, but the larger point of quoting Lenin is just to show that disparaging anti-electoralism has significant precedent on the left. Banning it is bad policy.
And again Leninist style electoralism and what you’re advocating are 2 entirely different things even if both are technically electoralism and as far as I’m aware only what you’re advocating for and advocating for electoralism as a means to make meaningful change is what people take issue with.
Two completely different things. Not even remotely related, except for the mechanism of voting. The problem is people keep trying to treat them like the same thing.
Again I’m not treating them as the same thing hence the “and”. They are 2 separate kinds of/views on electoralism that many see as harmful in comparison to the Leninist view.
You’re treating them both as harmful. I agree that one is, but the other very much is not.
Depends on who you ask. I think that many of the people affected by Graham Totenkopf Planters “fun adventure” or Copmala Holocaust Harris abhorrent history etc. might disagree with enabling this behaviour as acceptable in any way even if it is the “lesser evil” as not being harmful.