Think we should move away from politics, and focus on the more practical, economic changes. Like helping each other have less workload, creating victory gardens, and so on.
This is kind of easily explained :
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Evil does not care if you’re not 100% evil. If you’re tainted even a little, that’s good enough for them.
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Good is obsessed with purity. If you are imperfect, or if you disagree on any point, they consider you tainted and play right into Evil’s hand.
And yes, Left vs Right is just Good vs Evil, I don’t think that’s an unpopular statement here.
People need to accept imperfect allies
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Commies never question why vanguarding borujacketing disenfranchises solidarity 🤦
I question it all the time and it’s exhausting to watch others fall for it.
What the fuck is a borujacketing
Communists and Liberals are natural enemies!
Like Fascists and Communists!
Or Social Democrats and Communists!
Or Anarchists and Communists!
Or Communists and other Communists!
Damn Communists! They ruined Communism!
Meanwhile cummunists call everyone they don’t like virgins.
Shut up virgin!
sounds like something a fuckin’ lib would say 🤨🤔
Whatever shitlib
MLs splintering and accusing each other of liberalism is a time honored tradition
To be fair, I don’t think anarchists are immune to sectarianism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_Durruti_Group
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederación_Nacional_del_Trabajo
The Spanish revolution was quite a unique situation. It’s not like this keeps repeating among anarchist circles. The point being made is that this is a common occurrence
Unfortunately for the CNT, it seems like the sectarianism never ended.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederación_Nacional_del_Trabajo#Split_with_the_AIT_(2010–2018)
Also, isn’t ziq/Raddle super hostile to you/us for not being post-leftists? Like we definitely have sectarian tendencies. Edit: Which I think you are/the Anarchist Flotilla is doing a great job at keeping at bay, hence why you don’t notice it so much.
There’s always going to be disagreements, even pretty acerbic ones, but overall I don’t see the same kind of downright hate between anarchists who disagree with each other, like I see from splintered ML groups. I’ve been in online anarchist comms since 2008 or so, and it’s always been like this, even in the massive shitstorms of reddit circa 2010 or so, people weren’t denying their opponent’s anarchism. ML factions otoh are known for sending fucking assassins at each other :D
It’s so frustrating. Time and again in democracies, we’re shown that most people are best served by the policies of the left. But the left keep losing with breathtaking consistency, because of ignorance and infighting. If the politically aware were able to compromise with each other enough to organise and campaign, they would be able to inform the politically ignorant enough to walk every election.
Communists and liberals should be able to find some common ground and just work from there, instead of focusing on their differences. This is what the right does, and that’s why it’s winning.It’s because the left are bad at propaganda (maybe on purpose). Really stupid ppl need rituals. The right provides those. The left doesn’t want to manipulate ppl and doesn’t want to be a cult or look conform. So they don’t unite under one banner.
The right has chants and new racist drinking songs every year. They like dressing up in uniforms, wave qestionable flags. This appeals to ppl who want to belong.
If a large group of leftist parties could agree on things like that, the differences would just be factions within a united group.
You know, like maga hats. Vague. Harmless at first glance. No difficult history. Unites the sheeple.
I dunno, the left does it differently. 1984 is one of the most acclaimed novels of the 20th century and it’s leftist propaganda. Star Trek is leftist propaganda. The Beatles are leftist propaganda. Mr. Rogers. The Muppets, countless other kids’ TV shows.
We’ve got all the best tunes, the best messages and the depth to back it up. We just need to stop disagreeing about stupid shit, and stop treating discomfort like it’s a war crime.
There are some fundamentals that we all agree on, like equality, the sanctity of human life and human dignity and the freedom to do what you want as long as it harms nobody.
1984 is more anti-authoritarian propaganda, than leftist propaganda I would say.
I mean, I would be happy to work together, but historically speaking (almost) every time we did we were fucked over.
That’s true for the right as well. No one faction gets everything, or often anything it wants.
Centrists typically win big wars between the left and right not because they have the numbers or ideological superiority, but because radicals and true believers are the most likely to volunteer to die and the most likely for the other side to actively target.
That propaganda isn’t propagandy enough, or do you run around every day with a Star Trek com badge or wear a Star Trek uniform to protests? And even if you did, how willing would the Average Joe be to follow your lead? Further more, these are commercial franchises. You can’t have some company have the power to change the meaning of them.
Ok fair point. But I think that just any level of critical thinking is leftist propaganda in a way. Science says there is a gender spectrum, autism is real, the climate is collapsing, our current economic models don’t work, sociopaths tend to get into power, all of these scientifically verifiable facts are considered leftist. True art that asks you fundamental questions is leftist, because examining the human condition leads you to conclusions that abhor suffering. That can be graffiti or a scene in a Pixar movie.
I think my point is that the left don’t need manipulative propaganda, because we have truth on our side. And if we were able to rally properly, that would be enough.That truth doesn’t say “be one of us and be proud”.
Also, you have it reversed: We are not able to rally properly, because we don’t do manipulative propaganda. You have to get ppl off their asses nowadays. Most ppl are like really, really stupid. They need to be led. If we don’t do it, the fascists will. Also the regressives (often called conservatives) actively make ppl more stupid, because they know the left won’t harvest those sheeple.
It fucking does. I’m proud of who I am.
I’m not sure I agree that stupidity and lack of conviction go together. You don’t need to be able to do calculus in order to understand that hurting people is wrong.
Manipulating people into doing what you want them to do is a cunt’s trick. It introduces the kind of hierarchy that eventually fails.
Kind of like how Newsome and Trump called each other communists.
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Did Newsome really do this? Fucking idiot (I mean Newsome, just to be clear).
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These are the same people who started the whole “Genocide Joe” mantra in order to breed apathy on the left.
Were you literally born yesterday, or are you intentionally “forgetting” that the post October 7th phase of the Gaza Genocide started under Biden and was funded by Biden’s administration?
It doesn’t seem to matter that Trump wants to kill or displace every Palestinian and turn their home lands into a resort.
Well it doesn’t seem to matter to you that Biden wanted to do the exact same thing but in a “norm-preserving” way.
They actually prefer Republicans in power, Trump in particular, because they harm America.
This is just something y’all say, it’s made up. On the rare occasions where I’ve encountered a Trump supporter on here I call them out the same way. I suppose I could go over to Truth Social and try to sell them on communism but I doubt they’d be particularly receptive (and you wouldn’t see it if I did), and besides, our people built the platform.
They want to divide the left and create litmus tests for DNC candidates that are impossible to achieve.
“Met with the news the Israelis delivered the most devastating bomb & artillery attack on W. Beirut lasting 14 hours. Habib cabled—desperate—has basic agreement from all parties but cant arrange details of P.L.O. withdrawal because of the barrage. King Fahd called begging me to do something. I told him I was calling P.M. Begin immediately. And I did—I was angry. I told him it had to stop or our entire future relationship was endangered. I used the word holocaust deliberately & said the symbol of his war was becoming a picture of a 7 month old baby with it’s arms blown off. He told me he had ordered the bombing stopped—I asked about the artillery fire. He claimed the P.L.O. had started that & Israeli forces had taken casualties. End of call. Twenty mins. later he called to tell me he’d ordered an end to the barrage and plead for our continued friendship. Spent rest of day meeting with Congressmen on Tax bill.”
Diary entry of Ronald Reagan, August 12, 1982.
Don’t try to tell me supporting an end to the genocide is “impossible.”
Notably, the MAGA grifters benefiting from this division are unbridled by these requirements.
No they fucking aren’t.
No badjacketing allowed here. Even if it’s against instances and not people.
Yeah, it’s especially obvious when you call them out on how silly or ridiculous their take is and they just come back at you with some extreme non-sequitor that does nothing to engage with the argument you make. I’m sure there are some “real” people on those instances, but they’re definitely drowning in the flavor-aid at this point.
Dehumanising people for disagreeing with you and being racist towards Chinese and Russian people is so amazingly leftist of you. I wish I could be this principled and progressive.
Yeah, here’s a great example. Claiming anything op or I said is racist is wild. And also, Russia and China both have very well known state-sponsored disinformation/trolling campaigns running around online, so it would be expected that you would find dishonest accusations of “dehumanization” all while these trolls are merely “disagreeing”. That shit sells with the terminally online left and big-brain centrists, which is why they push that rhetoric. The worst part is you never know if it’s one of the state-sponsored professional trolls, one of the real people caught in the echo chamber, some rando dickhead that thinks it’s funny, or maybe someone who is using terrible translation methods.
Yes I agree everyone who doesn’t believe everything ever said about china and Russia is State sponsored or brainwashed and anyone pointing out how that is cpuld easily be dehumanising is also state sponsored or brainwashed. Really getting more and more leftist, principled, and progressive with each post. Fuck investigation, criticism, and debate true principled leftism is all about fedjacketing and bot jacketing.
Russia and China both have very well known state-sponsored disinformation/trolling campaigns running around online,
So does the US but I’m not about to call you or any of the idiots I see running around spreading blatant falsehoods CIA or NSA or brainwashed because that’s shitty and unhelpful.
You know, I can’t help but wonder if you and I truly disagree with one another on this particular subject. On top of that, I think it’s important to point out that we certainly have much more in common with each other than we do with our own political “leaders”. So I find it interesting that this particular conversation has devolved into criticism of state-sponsored bullshit at each other. While it’s certainly true that every major country in the world sponsors bullshit online, I think the number of actual propagandists is wildly overestimated, and the efficacy/subtlety of rhetorical propaganda is wildly underestimated. Hence how those in power are able to get people, who would otherwise recognize their common struggle, to be at each other’s throats instead of their common enemy. No one is immune to propaganda and I think we all tend to habitually forget that about ourselves.
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Wow, what a lib take. You’re just as bad as the fascists /s
Ironically on lemmy it is the more “liberal” flavors of leftism really not wanting anything to do with the more hardcore leftists on certain instances, to the point that we have dedicated communities and users making it their digital purpose to further that goal.
Before someone jumps me over this, i’m not a tankie myself. I just think the nazis are a bigger problem right now and i wish those people would spend their efforts on that instead.
Before someone jumps me over this, i’m not a tankie myself. I just think the nazis are a bigger problem right now and i wish those people would spend their efforts on that instead.
That’s exactly why the tankies are a problem. They’re so anti-lib that they wind up helping the Nazis.
I’m not a Democrat myself, but I vote for them because I think Nazis are the bigger problem. This has led to multiple bans from certain instances. Those instances are the ones spending their efforts in the wrong direction, for now.
Libs straight up create the conditions that enable fascism. No leftist wants to partner up the with light-right.
And this community has rules against disparaging anti-electorialism.
Libs straight up create the conditions that enable fascism.
Which is what makes them preferable, in a two-party state, to the fulfilled fascists. Baby tigers grow into adult tigers, but if I have the chance to choose which one I’m locked in a cage with, it’s gonna be the baby.
And this community has rules against disparaging anti-electorialism.
Stupid rules, if you ask me. It is always preferable to try to nudge things in your favor, if even slightly. I’m an anti-electoralist in the sense that it’s obviously insufficient to enact actual change, and no one should be encouraged to rely solely on electoral reform; that would be equally stupid. But it is an available tool. Even if it only makes things slightly easier for all the other, more effective means of enacting change, that’s still a valuable tool.
I’ll quote Lenin
Whilst you lack the strength to do away with bourgeois parliaments and every other type of reactionary institution, you must work within them because it is there that you will still find workers who are duped by the priests and stultified by the conditions of rural life; otherwise you risk turning into nothing but windbags.
Whilst you lack the strength to do away with bourgeois parliaments and every other type of reactionary institution, you must work within them because it is there that you will still find workers who are duped by the priests and stultified by the conditions of rural life; otherwise you risk turning into nothing but windbags.
He’s advocating running a communist electoral party as a means to spread the communist message and gitate amongst the masses, not voting for Graham totenkopf Planter or Copmala Harris. Literally the opposite of the point your trying to make about “lesser evil voting”.
He’s advocating running what you can to reach the yokels. Sometimes that’s someone who once was so ignorant they accidentally got a totenkopf tattoo. Platner and Harris are further left than most of the masses are willing to go as it is. We’re fighting an uphill battle, and there are like a handful of proper options across the entire nation. Your work with what you’ve got, and we’ve got work ahead of us. That work isn’t going to get any easier if we keep trying to fight the greater evil.
If only anarchists and communists joined forces Lemmy and started making unfunny antifa memes, fascism would be defeated…!
That means reconsiling our shit and self awareness to be compatible and not try to crab buvkey when our primary differences are organizational theory, among those of us absolute fucking nerds who have read theory. I’m not sure the productivity/chilling the fuck out spectrum really comes into play as a terrain of struggle during emergencies.
Looks like something a liberal would do
Humans as a whole are probably hopeless. It’s always the same cynical shit in the end
Humans as a whole are fine. We should probably focus on the few that grab power and drag the rest of us down. We’ve done it before, we’ll do it again. Things are going to be different, but we’ll be okay.
I never asked for a sermon
I doubt you’ll like what I have to say, but I do mean this in earnest; grow up. The world ain’t so bad, humans aren’t all terrible, and there’s plenty of good things happening right now that you could join in on. You’re missing out on so much dragging yourself down with this teenage adjacent angst. Get off the internet, go outside, go meet people in the real world.
Okay then, no sermons. Let’s start with “people are trash”. Hmm, I wonder where that goes… 😁
Agree, every literal communist should clown on anarchists more instead
Don’t you have some workers to betray or smth? 🙄
Don’t you have bedtimes to abolish?
Why are you in an anarchist community hosted on an anarchist instance posting from an anarchist instance if you think anarchists need to be clowned on?
Wait till you hear about anarcho-communists.
Pannekoek already called them “radical liberals” in one of his texts
TIL Kropotkin was a radical liberal and that’s why he sided with the Russian Tsar once
Well I guess everyone’s wrong once in a while 😁
I’d prefer we not recreate the Makhno situation
Are you being sarcastic or should I be banning you from this comm?
Nah it’s a joke, figured it was a really funny thing to say on a post calling for communist unity.
Is it tho? You can be in strong disagreement without calling the other person liberal
In that case you need to be more clear because it’s not coming our as a joke at all, but rather as a violation of the comm’s rules.
What rule would that be though? I’m not really seeing it
4 and 6
pretty sure hes serious
Just making sure
