• teyrnon@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    10
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    12 days ago

    “Work,” following herds of game and hunting, is not the same thing as schlepping it to some multinational soulless corp 5 days or more a week for what is now approaching starvation wages for many.

    The hunter gatherers are understood to have had more free time, and a higher standard of living in many respects, than their ancestors that started to farm, and were subsequently conquered by organized groups of armed men that subjugated them.

    • PugJesus@piefed.socialM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      12 days ago

      “Work,” following herds of game and hunting, is not the same thing as schlepping it to some multinational soulless corp 5 days or more a week for what is now approaching starvation wages for many.

      You’re right, it’s much fucking harder and ‘starvation wages’ in the context of hunter-gatherer society is fucking laughable.

      Don’t mistake an unfair scenario in the modern day with it being worse than the past.

      The hunter gatherers are understood to have had more free time,

      Slightly more, yes.

      and a higher standard of living in many respects,

      Fucking what.

      Material accumulation was only possible with the advent of sedentary societies, which were overwhelmingly based on subsistence farming.

      than their ancestors that started to farm, and were subsequently conquered by organized groups of armed men that subjugated them.

      The ‘neat’ notion of hunter-gatherer societies being overwhelmingly conquered is deeply outdated - as is, for that matter, the notion of a strict and immediate demarcation between hunter-gatherer and sedentary farming societies in most regions.

      • rumschlumpel@feddit.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        12 days ago

        Hunter-gatherers definitely had a lower quality of life in many material ways, but I’d assume that they were doing pretty well in terms of social and psychological wellbeing.

        • PugJesus@piefed.socialM
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          12 days ago

          I dunno that I’d take a stance either way. “Evolved for” is different from “thrives in”, after all. We also evolved for the physical health conditions of being pre-civilizational hunter-gatherers, but that doesn’t actually mean that our physical health is optimal in the conditions we evolved for.

        • Bubbaonthebeach@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          12 days ago

          Only if you were the same as everyone else. If you were an unwanted child, or one with deformities or anything else that could be a “bad omen” you would have been left to die. Same if you were too injured or sick to treat or past your useful lifespan.

          • rumschlumpel@feddit.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            12 days ago

            Sure. Lack of material goods and modern science is an issue. I certainly wouldn’t trade access to modern medicine with a healthy social life. But it’s a fact that tons of people in wealthy countries suffer from social isolation and stress from modern work life.

          • Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            10 days ago

            this is complete nonsense, there’s archeological evidence of people with all kinds of nasty deformities and injuries, who still lived to old age despite presumably needing to be carried and hand-fed.

            Like for fuck’s sake, imagine being in a group where everyone is either your directly family or a close friend. Would you leave them to die… for anything at all?
            I certainly hope you wouldn’t.

      • teyrnon@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        12 days ago

        As to the last paragraph, I said the opposite, that farmers were subjugated in a way the tribal hunter gatherers were not.

        You can talk better or worse, but for a lot of people, life is hell right now. More than you may know. The people building you phones for instance. Or making your clothes. Or most of your other cheap bullshit we used to make here with union labour.