The guy went on a lobbying trip to DC and was heard by GOP folks and not dems. So what? That’s all we know. Were dems busy that day? Did he try a different approach when he talked to the right. Anyone can go to DC and be heard or ignored on a lobbying trip.
Also, the content creator of the video was not vetted for sponsorship because they don’t usually do that. They admitted fault and are changing procedures to appropriately vet moving forward. I think their marketing team might even be external. Also, fascists never admit fault or accept accountability.
This sounds like big tech doesn’t want competition. You’ve seen google prevent side loading, and do a ton of shady things at this point. Why not a smear campaign too?
Thus guy might be a raging fascist dickhead for all I know. I’m just pointing out that the supposed evidence falls short and proves nothing.
Concerns I see are that Proton encourages you to import spam from your last account
They were lobbying in the US (there are good reasons to do that though)
They send your gmail notifications that you have new Proton emails along with details of that email if you use your old gmail as a recovery while transitioning - just use a different recovery email
None of those actual concerns have anything to do with far right ideologies.
OC by @[email protected]
It’s difficult for something to be a smear campaign against Proton when the behaviour of Proton is not only publicly documented, but doubled down upon. When the CEO spoke in favour of Trumpism, that’s exactly what the board did, instead of kicking the CEO out. And that’s just the low-hanging fruit.
There’s a saying. When people show you how evil they are, believe them.
And regardless, the free version of Proton Mail only gives 3 folders and 1 filter. How is that usable?
That, too. I’m happy costing money to Proton as a free tier user using the mail as an inbox, but as an actually usable storage and catalogue of incoming mail? It’s a disaster.
Things would be much easier doable if the IMAP bridge was available to the free tier.
This is some preach-the-controversy bullshit. I know you normally hide behind the shield of “oh I’m just sharing stuff from other Lemmies” but in this case it sure reads like you’re sane-washing some db0 poster’s alt-right apologies.
This was my theory. Perfection is the enemy of progress, so de-googling may not a have the perfect replacement making it easy to push a narrative by picking at it’s flaws. This is also spreading on lemmy, people here love to shit on Proton for questionable reasons.
It didn’t make sense why so many people on Lemmy love to hate Proton. Well until you consider that they are being told to hate Proton. Remember that perfection is the enemy of progress and you will not find the perfect solution you are looking for. At the very least you are diversifying your dependence on a big tech companies.
Before you respond to shit on me, use your critical thinking skills to determine for yourself if I am right or wrong. People’s opinions on Lemmy are meaningless, even mine. You are going to have to put in some work.
Nah, while I understand the importance of Proton, I’ve also seen that Andy Yen dude be openly pro-Republican and supportive of Elon Musk, so I’ve got absolutely zero benefit of doubt to give them when controversies pop up and I absolutely understand that they have enemies.
EDIT: A quote comes to mind, “It takes years to build trust. Moments to lose it.”
It is very possible, yes, but Proton has to wise up and stop falling the bullshit or stepping into it. Andy Yen said some really stupid stuff supporting Trump and the Republicans which killed my belief in the company. With him still at the helm, I don’t trust them.
All this new stuff doesn’t even bother me. There, they are reacting properly.
What does bother me is their technical claims of not being able to read your stuff, storing encrypted at rest, and so on, but nothing being opensource besides the clients. That bothers me a lot. So, I’m trying to use fully opensource options and self-hosting where I can.
Email is a lost cause. It just leaks too much data. Hopefully someday we’ll move away from it. If we can convince governments that email is an insecure means of communication, then maybe we can move the needle.
There are plenty of other options which haven’t actively supported the American Regime or white supremacists.
You can either switch to one of those and have peace of mind with the biggest downside of not haveing a suite of apps in one location (which is probably bad from a privacy perspective anyway). Or you can deny and ignore the issues that continue to come.
Product is not worse, what the problem?
Company “accidentally” gave money to the far-right French YouTuber Vincent Lapierre.
They seem to keep being pro far right and then when they are called out on it, they back track.
But from a purely security standpoint, proton is not a good product either, if court documents and FBI collaboration are any indication.
But from a purely security standpoint, proton is not a good product either, if court documents and FBI collaboration are any indication.
You mean them comply with court order that go through swiss legal system? They not go to jail for you by break law in switzerland. Have to comply.
Zero-trust mean you not need to trust. That the whole idea. Even if comply will not get any of content. The thing outside zero-trust (recovery email, account setting, payment info, maybe some metadata but not know) are able to reveal and will if legal forced. But think they have notice about on website, if not then maybe mislead.
If a company has no data on its customers then they can be in full compliance with law enforcement and still share nothing.
Again, the choice is your to ignore the issues and keep using it.
If a company has no data on its customers then they can be in full compliance with law enforcement and still share nothing.
How identify which customer try to use their profile without any data? Need at least username.
And this what proton do. Minimal amount of data to use. If not please point out.
Again, the choice is your to ignore the issues and keep using it.
Yes, but you also not specify which issue keep you from using. Except for vague “security issue”.
Check out mullvad as an example of a company gathering zero data on customers and legally providing law enforcement with zero data.
Re-read my above comment to see the most recent controversy.
"Also, the content creator of the video was not vetted for sponsorship because they don’t usually do that. "
Given the political direction most Westernised countries are heading, the kindest possible interpretation of that is breathtaking naivety on their part. Of course people are going to question why on earth far-right extremists are allowed to have unvetted ability to sponsor software.
To me, the essence of privacy software is the ability to ‘verify, not trust’ which is why the ties between privacy and open source are so strong. Proton are currently doing the opposite of that in how they run their company. A lot of people have had enough of tech companies half-arsing their approach and now refuse to just let these seemingly small things slide - mainly because they sometimes snowball into much larger things.
None of this is a smear campaign, its just a valid take on what people see unfolding in front of them.
Of course people are going to question why on earth far-right extremists are allowed to have unvetted ability to sponsor software.
Because as socialists/anti-facists we do kind of suck at putting money where our mouths are.
And as socialists/anti-fascists we also have orders of magnitude less money to same-put our mouths on.
Also, the content creator of the video was not vetted for sponsorship because they don’t usually do that.
Citation needed.
Proton did say “we intentionally avoid association with channels whose content could distract from our message and divide our community,” which is the exact opposite of this claim.
The guy went on a lobbying trip to DC and was heard by GOP folks and not dems. So what? That’s all we know. Were dems busy that day? Did he try a different approach when he talked to the right. Anyone can go to DC and be heard or ignored on a lobbying trip.
This is new information to me, going to look it up and add it to my list.
Also notable are
- Andy Yen promoting the Trump administration in late 2024
- The official Proton account doubling down on these statements including praise of JD Vance
- A string of cases where Proton worked with law enforcement in a way that breaks its advertised promises
- Being not quite forthcoming about its business structure
Nobody made Proton look like this.
A string of cases where Proton worked with law enforcement in a way that breaks its advertised promises
These cases are mostly because of legal limitations and user anonymity hygiene. One was about the person using their personally identifiable email as their recovery email, which is something Proton has to retain (for recovery purpses obvs) and is something they have to handover if the laws of the country they operate in allow the government to ask for it. The other was the person using a personally identifiable payment method, although I’m not familiar with Proton’s policies on retaining that data.
The other was the person using a personally identifiable payment method, although I’m not familiar with Proton’s policies on retaining that data.
There is no circumstance under which Proton should have kept this data, assuming the account was old enough. Sure, you can say “credit” but I can just as well say that if Proton sells its business on the idea of keeping data secure or at as-low risk as possible, then they should offer lifetime / one-time payment options so that the payment information would have expired already or at least would not be renewed forever.
And don’t tell me that doesn’t exist. I’m a user of SDF. They offer such plan.
Businesses usually have to keep data connected to taxable transactions for 5-10 years depending on their jurisdiction. While this doesn’t necessetate the full personal information of the payee, it does include the bank details of both sides. Meaning that if you pay via bank transfer or PayPal they legally have to keep that account number for however long swiss law requires.
As for your second point, while proton doesn’t offer lifetime subscriptions (which is always hard to properly price when you offer an online service), they do offer the option to pay with bitcoin or cash. Both options can be fully anonymized if you care enough to do so.
It’s not possible to really anonymize whichever option if it has to be used repeatedly enough that a pattern is formed, in particular for cash. That’s why one-time options are so important: because, given enough time, the past is in the past.
Not to mention that the bitcoin option means having to buy into the scams and felonies that is crypto in the first place.
As for lifetime subscriptions being “hard to properly price”, I don’t see why Proton can’t consult with SDF on the matter. SDF offers a multitude of services of noticeably high involvement – heck you get shell on their servers – so I don’t see how routing a tun/tap interface goes much more difficult than that.
If Proton has legal limitations, they have a responsibility to disclose them. Instead, they promise Swiss law, and they themselves, will protect users.
When you connect to Proton VPN, you enjoy the same legal protections that ensure the privacy of all Swiss citizens.
https://protonvpn.com/features/swiss-based
Proton is based in Switzerland, and your data does not go to the cloud. Instead, it stays under the protection of some of the world’s strongest privacy laws.
We are a neutral and safe haven for your personal data, committed to defending your freedom.
And Proton doesn’t need to store recovery email addresses unencrypted: they could hash them. Or at least warn about the danger of providing one.
And Proton doesn’t need to store recovery email addresses unencrypted: they could hash them.
Which does what exactly? They need to be able to use the unhashed email, otherwise it wouldn’t work as a recovery tool. If swiss law enforment comes knocking with a warrant, then they simply would be forced to unhash the address either way.
They need to be able to use the unhashed email
And they can, by receiving it unhashed if you ask to recover by using it.
It’s not remotely novel. Proton already received decrypted stuff and then encrypts it all the time.
then they simply would be forced to unhash the address
I don’t think you understand how hashing works
also let’s not pretend the recovery email is for the user - it’s for proton to ensure they don’t register spammers that can get their domain blocklisted
None of those are mutually exclusive from having to comply with the federal side of Swiss law. They are correct in that Swiss privacy laws are far better than that of the US. But any company operating in any locale is legally obligated to comply with the local laws.
Andy Yen promoting the Trump administration in late 2024
Andy publicly supported ONE person in the admin who ended up being ousted anyway for not kowtowing to Trump’s bullshit.
This is nowhere near the same thing as supporting the whole admin.
The official Proton account doubling down on these statements including praise of JD Vance
What you consider “praise” was nothing more than a simple statement of fact:
“At a 2024 event covering antitrust remedies, out of all the invited senators, just a single one showed up - JD Vance.”
That is an objectively factual statement. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s wrong. The rest of the comment prior to the edit was factual as well.
And if you really want to dig deep - they weren’t wrong about the Dems, either.
The people who run Proton are not based in the US and do not carry US-centric viewpoints. For a large amount of the civilized world, the US’s entire history is nothing more than a footnote. Keep that in mind next time you take major offence to a valid external viewpoint.
A string of cases where Proton worked with law enforcement in a way that breaks its advertised promises
Proton is a Swiss company, therefore they are legally obligated to comply with Swiss law. This includes handing over any data requested when legally subpoenaed.
Being not quite forthcoming about its business structure
You know you can just link to the actual source instead of one creator’s personal opinion. Proton is very up front about how it operates, it’s spelled out pretty clearly in that document.
That shouldn’t matter when you take a look at technical merit.
In some cases, but not that I can see in this case - maybe you have a specific example of what and why, compared to other similar privacy-centric services?
Especially because for a majority of its services, specifically regarding Mail, but also VPN and AI, privacy through Proton requires unprovable trust because Proton always gets to look at your data (respectively: most email contents, the same data as your ISP, and your AI chats).
