I disagree. In large text calling civilians responsible for the war and then depicting them as combatants has very clear implications.
Russia is the only one firing rockets and drones at hospitals and schools
Not really true unfortunately, there’s the starobilsk dormitory and the Novoaidar district hospital strikes off the top of my head not to mind the shelling of civilians in the Donbas since 2014. It’s not really a one side or the other in this war when it comes to crimes (not that it has ever been such is the horror of war).
You are being extremely generous with your interpretation of an image painting all Russian civilians as armed and responsible Russia’s for military actions, while Ukraine is currently under scrutiny for killing civilians inside of Russia.
You do not have to defend everything Ukraine does.
I am sure the media that you consume would absolutely show war crimes of Ukraine, as they would neo-nazis, forced conscription and other things that would make the western population oppose endless military help. Because the media one consumes has no bias, other than that of THE ENEMY!!!
The graphic put a gun in their hands; that is clearly painting them as a fair target.
I do not believe all Israelis or USians are responsible for the crimes of their ruling class and I know for a fact that all USians don’t support/vote for their officials. Israel also has dissidents.
Yeah it’s really bad. But, even if their dissidents are a marginal population, conflating them with the genuine fascists would be to discourage their dissidents. Any comrade in the US is in a similar dynamic.
Of course that note just veers into a struggle-session of its own regarding third-worldism; I have work tomorrow and won’t be participating. Good luck to the combatants.
I don’t know what you’re thinking you’re doing here. My response was referring to the “toleration” of nazi groupings in the Ukrainian army, saying that yes in fact neonazis are a general problem in this war because the Russian army also “tolerates” nazis in its ranks.
You’re responding to that by diluting the issue to something else completely, and changing the subject to “recruitment” tactics and the devaluing of the lives of soldiers.
That’s quite a bizarre way to change the subject from nazis operating in the open in the Ukrainian and the Russian armies. I guess it’s rhetorically “effective” because now I’m supposed to respond to this other thing but it’s frankly dishonest and it’s hushing up the neonazi issue. Enjoy your upvotes I guess.
You dummy, if both sides have a neo-nazi problem, then the side that has neo-nazi as their government AND as the military branch (AZOV) is the much, much more serious problem to worry about. Especially if that neo-nazi government and military is being aided by western powers.
Oh, aided by western powers who also aid “Israel” in their genocidal quest of eradicating Palestine? Zelensky also said he wants Ukraine to be the “Israel” of Europe btw.
So certain strands of campist so-called anti-imperialist discourse have actually reached the point of stooping as low as using NATO’s support for the genocidal Israeli apartheid regime to whitewash putinism as “the lesser evil”. Fascinating. You fantasize yourself an ML while parotting anti-intellectual bullshit (no, the Ukrainian government is not …neonazi, words do have actual fucking meanings) while swallowing whole the Rusich and other Wagner nazis.
Yup, I am a dummy. I should have fucked off from this stupid thread earlier. Cheerio.
I was following the existence of these groups for a while back in the day. Their crimes does not make an excuse to annex a country. Maybe everyone’s got that COVID brain now but if you can focus a bit you night remember that Russia keeps annexing independent countries whether or not there’s nationalist boogiemen present.
But I’m sure foreign intervention is cool to you types, after all the US does it so it’s fine right?
Their crimes does not make an excuse to annex a country.
Nobody is trying to annex Ukraine dude, not before the war and definitely not now. I don’t know where you guys get the idea that you can just Say Shit and have it count in an argument, but that is not the case. This war began in part because the Russian Federation would not abide the presence on their border of a fascist puppet government of a nuclear-armed enemy coalition that has helped pillage it’s economy and kill millions of it’s people within living memory.
Do you know what would happen if Russia annexed Ukraine? That’s right, their border would now be with Poland, a member of the nuclear-armed enemy coalition that etc etc. Except now their border would be a salient vulnerable from three sides and they would also be tied down by administering the basket case that western Ukraine has become. I am begging you people to stop thinking that life is a movie and Russians are the unthinking orc bad guys, and actually consider the strategic situation from their position. They don’t fucking want Ukraine. Not even NATO fucking wants Ukraine. Ukraine is a spent munition.
Russia keeps annexing independent countries
Source: my fevered dreams
And again, this is something NATO and the US do constantly, nonstop, while accusing their enemies of doing. It’s an incredibly predictable pattern. They did in in Ukraine dude. They’ve been doing it since after WW2. Invade/coup a country on the other side od the world. Install fascists to administer it for you. Declare it an independent state. Instigate further conflict, claim locals started it. We must defend South Korea. We must defend South Vietnam. We must defend Ukraine. Bam, you are now “defending the sovereignty” of a people whose government you picked for them, and whose struggling bodies you have thrown into conscription vans for a war you started from thousands of miles away and are making bank off of. It is so very depressing that after most of a century, this trick still works on liberals, and it works because they want to believe it.
But I’m sure foreign intervention is cool to you types, after all the US does it so it’s fine right?
I don’t know where you guys get the idea that you can just Say Shit and have it count in an argument
Because they’re nazis. They literally don’t give a shit. It’s the enemy. You can just say whatever you want about the enemy. If someone argues with you then you’ve rooted out a spy.
I don’t think Russians are Orcs. Quite a bit of them have tried not to go to war. Many of them keep dying for mysterious reasons. I think their leader-for-life is an ex-kgb oligarch tool from an oligarchic era and he murders any other political possibilities that try to happen in his country. It’s just weird as fuck that people defend his actions but not really when you look at the IP addresses of war pigs on twitter
Not going to give you sources because you are a lost cause doing state shit for a state. People who know, they know. But you’re just here to lie, invent fake arguments to dunk on like a schizo, and embody convictions in front of the right people. Hope they saw it and thought you were very brave shilling for a government.
Edit: did not see this was an .ml com. That’s on me, I came to your turf. I’m not sorry for what I said but I know you all have your hustle and so I shouldn’t have said it here
This is the Hitler in the DNA of liberalism rearing his head in defense. You have nothing to back up the childish good guy/bad guy understanding of the world that’s all the empire equipped you with. So instead you put on both the peaked military cap and the lab coat and just start smugly declaring that people who disagree with your dumbass ideas are both enemy spies and insane. I brought analysis, you brought “You’re Russian.” Say I’m Chinese and gay for Putin next you fuckin loser.
Trying to understand how and why states do what they do and coming to different conclusions, surely is not simping for some of these leaders. You get that, right?
Not going to give you sources because you are a lost cause doing state shit for a state. People who know, they know. But you’re just here to lie, invent fake arguments to dunk on like a schizo, and embody convictions in front of the right people. Hope they saw it and thought you were very brave shilling for a government.
I saw it, I think your dissonance makes you cop out. People who know, they know — lol.
nah. this just isn’t the place. i usually know better than to run my mouth here but ui on the device I’m using appended the server name. there is not a single link in the world that would be productive here because that’s not what this place is for
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do you not see the “ordinary russian” holding an assault rifle? Lmao
There’s certain implications to having the matryoshka doll labeled ordinary Russians holding a rifle wouldn’t you say?
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I disagree. In large text calling civilians responsible for the war and then depicting them as combatants has very clear implications.
Not really true unfortunately, there’s the starobilsk dormitory and the Novoaidar district hospital strikes off the top of my head not to mind the shelling of civilians in the Donbas since 2014. It’s not really a one side or the other in this war when it comes to crimes (not that it has ever been such is the horror of war).
Have you confused Russia with the US/Israel?
You are being extremely generous with your interpretation of an image painting all Russian civilians as armed and responsible Russia’s for military actions, while Ukraine is currently under scrutiny for killing civilians inside of Russia.
You do not have to defend everything Ukraine does.
I am sure the media that you consume would absolutely show war crimes of Ukraine, as they would neo-nazis, forced conscription and other things that would make the western population oppose endless military help. Because the media one consumes has no bias, other than that of THE ENEMY!!!
/s
I don’t know how they could put it clearer?
The graphic put a gun in their hands; that is clearly painting them as a fair target.
I do not believe all Israelis or USians are responsible for the crimes of their ruling class and I know for a fact that all USians don’t support/vote for their officials. Israel also has dissidents.
Shut the fuck up.
Maybe not all but 82% being for ethnic cleansing is an insane number.
86-93% Jews worldwide support Zionism in some capacity
Yeah it’s really bad. But, even if their dissidents are a marginal population, conflating them with the genuine fascists would be to discourage their dissidents. Any comrade in the US is in a similar dynamic.
Of course that note just veers into a struggle-session of its own regarding third-worldism; I have work tomorrow and won’t be participating. Good luck to the combatants.
Ah, yes, the good ol’ lemmy, where discussion is always welcome
“So much for the tolerant left”
I have decided not to extend the benefit of the doubt to the government who’s ethnic cleansing campaign against Russian people kicked off this war
Can you expand on this a bit
Absolutely, I generally do not trust or support people who do things like this:
Or do you mean the war thing?
Are we supposed to pretend Russia doesn’t have the same neonazi problem Ukraine has?
The neonazi problem that is the government of Ukraine and is stuffing Ukranian men into vans to be sent to the meat grinder?
Because Russia is not doing that.
Russia has absolutely been throwing young men into the meat grinder. Hold Ukraine responsible sure but don’t lie.
Is it combing the country with kidnapping squads to force terrified fathers and sons into vans?
I don’t know what you’re thinking you’re doing here. My response was referring to the “toleration” of nazi groupings in the Ukrainian army, saying that yes in fact neonazis are a general problem in this war because the Russian army also “tolerates” nazis in its ranks.
You’re responding to that by diluting the issue to something else completely, and changing the subject to “recruitment” tactics and the devaluing of the lives of soldiers.
That’s quite a bizarre way to change the subject from nazis operating in the open in the Ukrainian and the Russian armies. I guess it’s rhetorically “effective” because now I’m supposed to respond to this other thing but it’s frankly dishonest and it’s hushing up the neonazi issue. Enjoy your upvotes I guess.
You dummy, if both sides have a neo-nazi problem, then the side that has neo-nazi as their government AND as the military branch (AZOV) is the much, much more serious problem to worry about. Especially if that neo-nazi government and military is being aided by western powers.
Oh, aided by western powers who also aid “Israel” in their genocidal quest of eradicating Palestine? Zelensky also said he wants Ukraine to be the “Israel” of Europe btw.
So certain strands of campist so-called anti-imperialist discourse have actually reached the point of stooping as low as using NATO’s support for the genocidal Israeli apartheid regime to whitewash putinism as “the lesser evil”. Fascinating. You fantasize yourself an ML while parotting anti-intellectual bullshit (no, the Ukrainian government is not …neonazi, words do have actual fucking meanings) while swallowing whole the Rusich and other Wagner nazis.
Yup, I am a dummy. I should have fucked off from this stupid thread earlier. Cheerio.
If you’re not already banned you soon will be. You’re not allowed to question Russian propaganda on communities that end in .ml
They always “claim” to be progressive and good. But immediately ban anyone who points out facts.
Is the “Russian propaganda” in the room with you now?
The “facts”:
I was following the existence of these groups for a while back in the day. Their crimes does not make an excuse to annex a country. Maybe everyone’s got that COVID brain now but if you can focus a bit you night remember that Russia keeps annexing independent countries whether or not there’s nationalist boogiemen present.
But I’m sure foreign intervention is cool to you types, after all the US does it so it’s fine right?
Nobody is trying to annex Ukraine dude, not before the war and definitely not now. I don’t know where you guys get the idea that you can just Say Shit and have it count in an argument, but that is not the case. This war began in part because the Russian Federation would not abide the presence on their border of a fascist puppet government of a nuclear-armed enemy coalition that has helped pillage it’s economy and kill millions of it’s people within living memory.
Do you know what would happen if Russia annexed Ukraine? That’s right, their border would now be with Poland, a member of the nuclear-armed enemy coalition that etc etc. Except now their border would be a salient vulnerable from three sides and they would also be tied down by administering the basket case that western Ukraine has become. I am begging you people to stop thinking that life is a movie and Russians are the unthinking orc bad guys, and actually consider the strategic situation from their position. They don’t fucking want Ukraine. Not even NATO fucking wants Ukraine. Ukraine is a spent munition.
Source: my fevered dreams
And again, this is something NATO and the US do constantly, nonstop, while accusing their enemies of doing. It’s an incredibly predictable pattern. They did in in Ukraine dude. They’ve been doing it since after WW2. Invade/coup a country on the other side od the world. Install fascists to administer it for you. Declare it an independent state. Instigate further conflict, claim locals started it. We must defend South Korea. We must defend South Vietnam. We must defend Ukraine. Bam, you are now “defending the sovereignty” of a people whose government you picked for them, and whose struggling bodies you have thrown into conscription vans for a war you started from thousands of miles away and are making bank off of. It is so very depressing that after most of a century, this trick still works on liberals, and it works because they want to believe it.
-You in 1944, smugly opposing D-Day
Because they’re nazis. They literally don’t give a shit. It’s the enemy. You can just say whatever you want about the enemy. If someone argues with you then you’ve rooted out a spy.
I don’t think Russians are Orcs. Quite a bit of them have tried not to go to war. Many of them keep dying for mysterious reasons. I think their leader-for-life is an ex-kgb oligarch tool from an oligarchic era and he murders any other political possibilities that try to happen in his country. It’s just weird as fuck that people defend his actions but not really when you look at the IP addresses of war pigs on twitter
Not going to give you sources because you are a lost cause doing state shit for a state. People who know, they know. But you’re just here to lie, invent fake arguments to dunk on like a schizo, and embody convictions in front of the right people. Hope they saw it and thought you were very brave shilling for a government.
Edit: did not see this was an .ml com. That’s on me, I came to your turf. I’m not sorry for what I said but I know you all have your hustle and so I shouldn’t have said it here
This is the Hitler in the DNA of liberalism rearing his head in defense. You have nothing to back up the childish good guy/bad guy understanding of the world that’s all the empire equipped you with. So instead you put on both the peaked military cap and the lab coat and just start smugly declaring that people who disagree with your dumbass ideas are both enemy spies and insane. I brought analysis, you brought “You’re Russian.” Say I’m Chinese and gay for Putin next you fuckin loser.
Trying to understand how and why states do what they do and coming to different conclusions, surely is not simping for some of these leaders. You get that, right?
I saw it, I think your dissonance makes you cop out. People who know, they know — lol.
nah. this just isn’t the place. i usually know better than to run my mouth here but ui on the device I’m using appended the server name. there is not a single link in the world that would be productive here because that’s not what this place is for
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