Fun little triangle there between Norway, Sweden and Denmark.
Its funny cause then when youre talking about estonia youre suddenly buddies with finland again cause “estonia is basically eastern europe”
Finnish and Estonian languages are closely related. Unlike Finnish and other Nordic languages.
Yup, i liv in sweden and im hungarian so i know my stuff with uralic languages. I think its mainly about estonia not being on the peninsula, but neither is denmark. The absolute most northern part of denmark is about as north as the mosy southern part of estonia and also estonia is seperate from latvia and lithuania as those are balto-slavic while estonia is uralic as mentioned previously which puts it with finnish and sami in northern europe. Estonia is also very modern and has a well oiled welfare system(at least from the outside, would gladly hear the opinion of an estonian) so all of these make estonia feel pretty nordic.
Afaik from Helsinki to Tallinn it’s like thirty minutes on a ferry, so even tourists tend to visit the latter together with the former. (Which, I now realize, I failed to think of when sitting in Helsinki not knowing what else to do.)
I like looking at these kinds of maps and finding the stable spots.
Norway -> Denmark -> Sweden -> Norway is one.
There’s also Switzerland -> France -> Switzerland.
The UK escapes being part of one of those cycles by choosing a country that’s off the map as their escape.
The Nordics, Finland, and Estonia are just doing an exchange program.
we’re very keen on recycling
The only thing better than a Nordic country is another Nordic country
I thought it was because those nations are basically bickering siblings and enjoy annoying each other.
i’m seeing three dominant patterns: the aussie funnel, the nordic maelstrom and the franco-swiss oscillator.
Germany really hard-carrying the Franco-Swiss oscillator.
‘Carrying’
Also one megatrend pattern that seem to lead away from Russia.
Fuck Germany. I’m German. Honestly don’t go there if you have better choices. Not because I don’t want you here, you’re more than welcome. Because you’ll get milked. Germany is impoverishing your country with all sorts of tricks. Look back at the Euro crisis and what we did with Greece. Look at their massive export surplus which basically means we’re exporting deindustrialiuation to you. Look at what we did with the former GDR. Fuck Germany and their capitalist class.
Fuck Germany. I’m German. Honestly don’t go there if you have better choices. Not because I don’t want you here, you’re more than welcome. Because you’ll get milked. Germany is impoverishing your country with all sorts of tricks. Look back at the Euro crisis and what we did with Greece. Look at their massive export surplus which basically means we’re exporting deindustrialiuation to you. Look at what we did with the former GDR. Fuck Germany and their capitalist class.
I agree. Merz is basically a total personification of this. All he has achieved in his time is to make the far-right popular again. I hate that guy!
Hitler would be crying right now…
…for more than one reason.
Fuck Germany and their capitalist class.
Yeah, under Orbán Hungary became an assembly service for German carmakers, who then wielded (probably still do) way too much economic influence over the country.
No, the sellout began way before Orbán.
True that. We didn’t have an actual left-wing government since 1989, even the supposed “left-wing” were actually neoliberals pandering to international corporations.
Looks like lots of young Europe hasn’t had this stuck in their head for a while.
This makes me wonder how does the graph diagram wind up looking like. Most nodes seem to end in a Germany-Switzerland-France loop
And then there’s the edge case of England going literally outside of the continent, with Australia
That’s because Brits would rather move to the literal other side of the globe where everything wants to kill you than learn a second language.
That makes a lot of sense - but if that were all there was to it, wouldn’t most of the emigration go to the fellow Commonwealth member, Canada?
Better not risk the chance of ever seeing a french word. By accident
The other side of the world: for when you really need to get as far away from it all as you can.
They took away our right to live in Europe. I imagine things would be very different for British 18-34 year olds had that not happened.
I’m not sure that’s true, even when we were in the EU more Britons moved to Australia.
Russians also move to Kazakhstan
Right, I keep forgetting Russia is still partly in Europe
Oddly enough, so is Kazakhstan! By most definitions of the Asia-Europe border, Kazakhstan has a chunk on the European side that’s actually still bigger than most European countries
Some countries like Turkey are part of both Europe and Asia on technicalities. They straddle the border so they get to be part of both.
Then there’s Russia, where the population is mostly in Europe, but the land is mostly in Asia.
The European part of Turkiye is still about twelve million people as well, it’s not like Russia but it is still a pretty substantial number of people. It’d be the 12th-most populous country in Europe if it was independent
It’s not as out of balance as Russia though. European Russia accounts for about 15% of Europe’s entire population. It’s a huge area, a lot of which is rural, but its population density of 27/km^2 is almost 10x as high as the population density of Siberia at 2.8/km^2. Siberia is 13.1 million km^2, European Russia is just under 4 million km^2.
Siberia is normally thought of as a snowy wasteland, but it also includes Russia’s entire Pacific coast, including Vladivostok where in the summer the average highs through July, August and September are all above 20C. That’s warmer than Edinburgh. Its winters are colder, but they’re not much colder than Moscow.
i feel there’s a big difference in how the parts of the countries culturally relate to each other, too.
Like i’m not aware of any real difficulty getting between european and asian Turkey, whereas with russia it’s 1) a massive distance, 2) there’s a big fuckoff mountain chain in the way, and 3) the fuck are you going to do in siberia?
Most of it is in Asia, but the part in Europe has most (75%+) of the actual people. Partly colonial population dynamics at work, partly the rest of it being Siberia.
They do like to make themselves at home in other people’s homes. Wouldn’t be such a problem if so many of them weren’t such horrible cunts.
sorry to be nitpicky, but it’s only a 2-cycle, switzerland and france. but most of the countries get there via germany.
it would be interesting to look at the induced directed acyclic graph of the original graph’s connected components.
Most popular coloring is deceiving: It could mean 90% emigrate to that country or 10% do. Also this map totally neglects how many stay in that country.
To visualize the data completely (not on a map unfortunately) one could choose a chord diagram.
It just ends in a France Switzerland loop. I think you’re mistaking Austria for Switzerland.
Lol the Swiss want to be French and the French want to be Swiss.
I suppose young french, would like to have better salary… young swiss just want to spend their money on good food, for once
I have not tried swiss food, but oof. Still, I have been to only two places which might be close to beating france in terms of average quality of food.
As a French, I have to say that their way of doing raclette is more expensive than ours but also tastes even better.
What’s the key difference? Can I try it at home?
The main difference is that they melt the cheese right off the wheel and they usually pair it with “grenaille” potatoes (basically a variety that’s really small, so they are kind of roasted when cooked)
You can try it at home but you need specialized equipment to melt cheese wheel chunks, over here you can loan them from some cheese shops, it looks like this:
When eating it in a restaurant they will usually do that in the kitchen and just bring the partly melted chunk at the table and scrape the melted cheese into your platter though.
To be honest I’m not sure that melting the cheese directly from the wheel changes the taste, as long as you’ve got good cheese, but it looks glorious, and looks are actually a big part of the culinary experience so I think it still plays a part.Also there’s kind of a dispute over whether that process actually comes from Switzerland or not IIRC, but it is more widespread there nowadays
Ohh, I don’t think I will buy the wheel holder thing, or a wheel of cheese for that matter, but I think I’ll try making that myself the simple way.
Thanks for taking the time to type that out, it was intriguing.
They actually sell Raclette appliances in German-speaking countries. They’re little square frying pans with a little grill you put them under. Raclette is sold pre-sliced for them. It’s not as fun as a big block of molten cheese but it’s a nice communal meal like a hotpot.
The grass is always greener on the other side.
Yeah the swiss mostly want to stay swiss but a lot of people work at the french/swiss border
That’s a problem with this map, it only shows the most popular destination, not how popular that destination is or how many people actually leave.
I mean this is for the few that want to leave. How likely is it for someone to put “Wants to move to their own country” in a survey?
For once, Germany is popular!
A bit too popular, as all the culture clash & other associated problems are giving right-wing extremists ammunition for their bullshit. At least so it seems to this distant American who lived there for several years decades ago.
Edit: sorry for my uninformed guess. I honestly have only very loosely paid attention to what’s going on over there as there’s more than enough BS at home drawing my attention. I just hate to hear of my favorite childhood place having similar problems.
IME, people from slavic countries aren’t really responsible for most of the culture clashes. Far-righters are mostly complaining about muslims and black africans, i.e. groups that are much more visible and far more culturally different.
Also, I’m not a fan of appeasement. IMO few would care about the far right if people didn’t have to deal with more tangible issues like absurd real estate prices, declining quality of social security systems + healthcare and the national government’s brazen corruption. Plus, massive online propaganda.
Oh, they hate Slavs too, they just hate muslims more. If they were to somehow get rid of the migrants they’d find the time for slav-bashing, believe me.
Fascism always needs an ennemy.
That argument means that nothing you do will make the farrighters disappear, other than legal and possibly violent suppression. I do think there’s some truth to that, but the fact that the farrighters aren’t even complaining (much) about slavs immediately invalidates the other commenter’s argument.
Good point. I’m only loosely aware of what’s going on over there, and honestly haven’t really put much thought into it. I just hate to see yet another piece of cherished childhood memories going down the tubes.
The regions where the far right is most popular are also the regions with the least immigrants.
No, it is the inaction of politicians in general that is giving those people ammunition (figuratively and literally).
Ahhh, sorry to hear they’ve contracted a bad case of Americanitis.
Russians to Kazakhstan? Is this voluntary emigration?
It’s because they’re the number one exporter of potassium
K
I would guess it was very different before the war started, but I can’t find a good source nor for this, neither for pre-2022 stats. Now there are at least some companies that moved to Kazakhstan because it was a relatively easy move
Brits on their way to leave the continent:
Data source plz.
I live in Finland and we’re looking to moving into Sweden or Norway… It’s rough here. Everything is expensive, can’t get or afford healthcare, no jobs… We just want a little house and some simple jobs to barely sustain or little family, and to be able to go to the doctor if sick. Not possible in Finland at the moment or in the near future.
Isn’t healthcare free in Finland?
It used to be nice, it’s still nice if you’re dying. The big problem is getting there as some data suggests Finland now has by far the longest wait times to see a doctor in Europe. Current government implemented austerity measures combined with economic difficulties since the 90s recession that screwed us over.
Lol, no, not in any way. :DDD
Don’t expect it to be terribly different in Norway. If you are dying and/or need emergency care it is probably ok/good, but just your average healthcare is annoying at best and you have to beg for any kind of specialist treatment.
That’s honestly what I’m expecting.
well don’t go to sweden expecting better healthcare, the previous right wing government has been very busy ruining everything with privatization.
It might still be better compared to not getting any… It’s not like we need help every week and so on. I got lots of family in Northern Sweden, and they all just say it’s all good and they get easily what they need and even can go to specialists fast. (Yes, on public side.)
not sure you want to use northern sweden as a good example, considering how there have been news articles about people having to drive for hours to give birth in a hospital because their local one closed…
I live in Northern Finland and the situation is the same or even worse here. Anything is an improvenement. I’m, we’re, not looking for perfection, just something livable.
They have and it sucks but we still have decent health care. It’s just that the overhead is increasingly siphoned off to some tax haven.
Didn’t really expect people wanting to migrate into Poland.
Hasn’t Poland doing very well over the last few years? So well, that in fact, here in germany more Poles are going back to Poland than new Poles are coming to germany lol. All because in germany the rents are high, and even more importantly, your net pay sucks since you gotta pay a lot for social security, and those social security costs that get deducted from your pay keep rising, leaving you with an ever smaller net pay.
My Polish schoolmates returned to Poland, especially after the recession.
No no, it’s honestly the most logical choice for people from Belarus. Similar culture, many already speak the language, Poland is rich in comparison to Belarus and everything is a beacon of freedom when compared to Europes last dictatorship.
I know plenty of young Finns that left to Poland in hopes of better life and they’re living the dream there… Yeah, wages are smaller, but so are living costs and all that too.
But then, of course, everybody is rich compared to Belarus.
Into the the largest and richest economy in the region (Eastern Europe)? Shocker, amirite?
Most well educated young adults who emigrate do so for better wages. Shocker.
Which one is it for Slovenia?
Austria would make sense
It’s probably Italy actually.
Czech Republic
That’s Slovakia. Slovenia is the one next to Italy without any flag. The color doesn’t match any other country.
Right you are, apologies.
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What is the link between Portugal and Switzerland?
Highest salaries in Europe and possibly the world for construction workers.
