Comment and thread in question: https://lemmy.world/comment/23138585
Ban from that community, [email protected]:
Rule 1 of said community: Be civil and nice.
Rule 1 of said instance: No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia. Code of Conduct.
I was clearly not bigoted in any manner, and I believe more civil than the way I was treated, was it the Code of Conduct? Excerpts:
Please be kind and courteous. There’s no need to be mean or rude.
Respect that people have differences of opinion and that every design or implementation choice carries a trade-off and numerous costs. There is seldom a right answer.
I think I was kind with the people I disagreed with, even if they could not be in return, yet those comments (some including ableist slurs) remain. I think this is enough to demonstrate it is merely a difference in ideology which motivated the ban. Well, bans, because it seems they copied and pasted the same ban in all the communities they have access to:
It’s not a general lemmy.ml ban, just those in particular.
I understand this kind of behavior in safe space communities that don’t want outsiders bellyaching about the pragmatism of electoral politics, but that’s not the case in any of the communities I’ve been banned from, nor is it a part of the instance rules or CoC.
PTB or triggered shitlib? Not an exclusive or, of course.
PTB. The Democrats are better than the Republicans, but the tankies at ml don’t want you to think so. Being a leftist is a bannable offence at the tankie triad.
they are “better” in the technical sense that they are slightly less openly evil.
like choosing someone to stab you 10 times and yell slurs at you or the better alternative, someone who stabs you 10 times in your back and said “#blm #lgbtq #pokemkngotothepolls” while both line their pockets with insider trading and bribing.
The Democrats are better than the Republicans
By as narrow a margin as they think they can get away with.
Its absolutely hilarious that there are two types of people in this thread, people who read your comments and people who see ml so assume it must be a PTB. How about you make it easier for everyone and post those offending comments?
People would rather just say ml bad then do any reflection on what’s going on around them. Especially when it requires them to change views
You could convince the vast majority of .world users to unilaterally agree with a hardcore Nazi if you said “look these evil ml tankies just censored a poor innocent liberal”
Or simply say nazis shouldn’t exist. They come out of the woodwork to say stop calling those you don’t like nazis on posts saying nothing but no nazis 🤷🙃
I mean, it works well enough for the liberals. I’d say about 60% of band from .ml are deserved, and the 40% is bullshit.
But .world and MWoG think that if you were banned for advocating for America to invade places to “liberate” them, you’re actually a victim.
lemmy.ml is an instance well-known for being, shall we say… unreasonable when it comes to politics.
The admins and a large portion of the user base are tankies— people who claim to be extreme leftists/communists but really worship the likes of Stalin, Xi and the oppressive authoritarian government of regimes, such as the Soviet Union, China, and North Korea. They are very much intolerant any criticism whatsoever or anyone else’s political views. Unfortunately, the administrators of that instance are also the main developers for Lemmy itself.
This is why
the code has been forked to another platformalternatives to lemmy have been developed, such as PieFed, which is federated and interoperates with Lemmy, and is not dependent on the crazy ass developers. It also has better mod and admin features. but even if you don’t wanna switch to PieFed, you can at least avoid communities on Lemmy.ml. I have the whole instance blocked.piefed is not a fork, it’s a completely different codebase. with plenty of its own problems.
oh, my mistake. with a quick google, I see that it’s python, not rust, so yeah, obviously not a fork. my mistake!
did you also see the opinionated parts? if you enable the default filter list piefed hides all meme and 4chan communities and enables built in image recognition specifically to prevent people from posting greentexts. it also keeps an internal tally of user “quality” based on what communities they post in.
truly everything is political.
yeah, I don’t really consider those to be the “problems” others do, especially since instance admins can simply disable those features.
of course they can, just like how the ml admins can choose not to have their weird swearing filter that nobody else uses. but it’s still in there and that’s what they thought communities wanted. eg, that’s what they wanted for their community. point being, no codebase is neutral and i don’t know the intent of the piefed dev either.
ok, but, again, I don’t view what the piefed dev did as problematic. the lemmy devs? I do find them problematic for many reasons, including the ones I’ve already mentioned.
so, enough with the whataboutisms
it’s not a counter-accusation trying to paint one in a better light than the other. i want none of it, and the fact that the bias is apparently okay as long as the politics are aligned feels pretty shit.
piefed hides all meme and 4chan communities
Fake news
built in image recognition specifically to prevent people from posting greentexts
Based
keeps an internal tally of user “quality” based on what communities they post in.
Fake news.
I’m a PieFed admin and I’ve read some of the source code, ask Me anything.
Oh, damn, that “user quality” metric is really messed up
It’s also fake.
It’s a misunderstanding of a setting admins can enable that makes it so meme communities don’t add to your karma. That way, you can’t karma farm by posting memes.
I’m a piefed admin and My instance has that setting disabled because I like memes.
OP got banned from this community for “Bad jacketing and electoralism”, and while I aint reading 125 comments to see bad jacketing, including electorialism as a ban reason is wild af.
Regardless if PTB or YDI, I think grass touching might be in order for multiple parties here for taking online politics LARP too seriously. It’s a beautiful spring weather, perfect for a walk.
What is bad jacketing?
coming into an anarchist instance and telling people you get to decide if they’re anarchist or not.
they were calling people who they think didn’t vote nazis. seems like a pretty good reason to ban someone. they were also banned from AN because they wouldn’t stop calling me honey.
all in all, a rather unpleasant liberal, who was given the chance to find posting opportunities elsewhere.
Look I’m not saying op was right but like at some point we have to acknowledge the elephant in the room. The non-voters/moderates/apolitical/silent majority/whatever the fuck you want to refer to them as is always simultaneously the biggest roadblock to progress and the biggest enabler of authoritarianism. Read and listen to what former Nazis had to say on the subject, listen to the survivors of their attrocities who were the moderate/apolitical group until authoritarianism kicked in their own personal door.
Exactly. And especially so when its “Dems are just as bad”.
No they the fucknare not.
Dems suck ass, but there is absolutely ZERO path towards progressive policy and a net positive through the GOP. Zero. They are an agressive, regrrssive, boat anchor, dragging everyone and everything backwards. Dems at least pay fucking lip service to and throw a bone to progressive policies. A bone that can be turned into a seed for actual positive change.
The GOP would rather grind thst shit to dust and tell you id doesn’t exist.
Dems at least pay fucking lip service to and throw a bone to progressive policies.
And then find just enough no votes so they can block those policies, like with the public option and every tangible individual benefit in Build Back Better. Or we need the parliamentarian on board like with minimum wage. Or we need to ask every federal employee until we get the “no” we’re looking for like biden did with cannabis rescheduling.
The left saw a party that they suspected was ineffectual on purpose.
Then they turned around and proved it by getting out of their own way and ignoring actual laws to sell weapons for genocide. They could have found an excuse not to. They’re amazingly adept at finding them when they don’t want to keep their campaign promises.
Dems suck ass, but there is absolutely ZERO path towards progressive policy and a net positive through the GOP. Zero.
And what progressive policies have we had with them in office?
No they the fucknare not
Tell us you have no idea what happens outside of the US without telling us you’re an uneducated American who has buried their head in the sand to avoid thinking about how the democratic party has a long history of supporting human rights abuses in Asia.
Yup. If two rapists walk up to me and tell me to choose between them, I’m choosing the one who will give me medical care, education, improved economy for the working class instead of investing class, public infrastructure, nature preservation, and a tease of corporate regulations instead of the one who will empty my wallet and return nothing. Either way we’re getting fucked, may as well get fucked like an old housewife instead of a slave.
Here’s a thought. Throw the rapists out and elect somebody who isn’t a rapist, you fucking weirdos.
Oh yeah I’m sorry I guess I just imagined that literally every single government on the planet is assisting the pedo ring run by my elected pedo rulers. You’re literally acting like an American rn… even demonstrating the same levels of willful ignorance and blind ego as the most red of Maga. Congratulations you’re more American than 1/2 of their own population!
I like how you’re doing your best to make giving up and deciding that you’re just going to have to pick between pedos from now on seem like the smart choice. That’s pretty disgusting, not gonna lie. And worst of all, you don’t seem all that bothered by it.
Yeah,you are right, but we don’t get there without passing through the “friendly.housewife rapist” first, so we can at least get back to a “normal” level.
“We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented."
I’m curious what you mean by this quote, as it feels a bit both sides doesn’t it?
The first half seems to indicate one should just vote dem because lesser of two evils (not voting being “neutrality” in my reading) so then in the second half…
You had a lot of leftists rightly pointing out Kamala would not commit to ending support for Israel’s genocide, and we were told to shut up and just vote the lesser evil anyway.
So… Silenced and then what happened
For all their corpo-friendly faults, Democrats are demonstrably less oppressive than Republicans. Vote for the lesser evil, then don’t be silent about the support of genocide. But keep the greater evil out first.
Vote for the lesser evil, then don’t be silent about the support of genocide. But keep the greater evil out first.
So it turns out that wasn’t a convincing argument for enough voters.
And we’re all paying the price for their terrible judgement.
Voting for Democrats is not voting for success. IDK why we have to keep telling people that. At the very best, voting Dem is a vote for maintaining the decades of fascism and civil rights abuses by them. It’s a vote for the status quo, even at the best of times and during the best years. Usually, however, voting for the Dems is voting for the erosion of civil rights, genocide and human rights abuses in Asia, and the proliferation of corporate and Israeli control over the nation. They aren’t the “lesser of two evils”, they ARE the same evil, and anyone who says otherwise is an entitled white person who doesn’t have to live through the human rights abuse they gleefully take part in.
The only difference between them and Trump is that finally, Americans like you are having to actually live through the shit you put the rest of the world through. Hopefully you reflect on the experience and see what a horrible country you live in, and actually start voting for somebody who will change that.
I highly doubt that though.
So you don’t live in America but you somehow know exactly what it’s like to live there under every variable across every administration? Congratulations, you are as American as the most devout maga.
I do live in America. I was born here. But I have no loyalty to this fetid country. So you’re right, I don’t consider myself American. I would never willingly associate with such a murderous terror regime.
they were also banned from AN because they wouldn’t stop calling me honey.
Ugh. I hate it when shitlibs add an inappropriate pet name to the end of their condescending apologia for genocide.
I think this thread is a great example of what not to do in this community. Rather than discuss whether or not the ban was warranted for breaking a listed rule (which in this case was an obvious PTB, they didn’t break any rule and got banned from unrelated communities), half the people here simply devolved into attacking OP for their beliefs and ultimately banning them for defending themselves, even after they apologized and attempted to be civil. That’s not what this place is for, and the mods have said as much before.
They didn’t apologize for calling people Nazis, or for sexually harassing me either.
Are you referring to them calling you “honey”? I would think that’s them being a condescending dick, not sexually harassing you. Regardless, I don’t see why they would apologize to you in particular given how hostile and a self-proclaimed “jerk” you were to them.
Well if we decide we want your help determining what is and isn’t sexual harassment, we’ll be sure to contact you directly.
Scratched liberal, what a shock that they’re so fascist.
The amount of neo-liberals/liberals on Lemmy actually surprises me. Like, most of these communities are apparent in their disdain for them and that’s putting it mildly. I’m personally tired of all the apologia they get from people on here. Less harm is still harm, lesser evil is still evil, less fascist is fascist.
Liberals want this to become Reddit 2, including America apologia, DNC does nothing wrong, and anything vaguely not worshipping white males must be purged.
We really need another “it’s .ml, they crazy, who cares?” Option.
I have never missed lemmy dot ml. I blocked the instance at the first sign of reddit behavior.
I wish I could do the same with .world, but I’ve been told an admin shouldn’t block instances just because they’re filledd with shitlibs.
Thanks for the laugh.
I’ve mostly blocked .ml instances. They’re super toxic and not really open to discussion at all. I wouldn’t worry about it too much.
DNC are subhuman trash that promote zionist supremacist first rule over the US for 90% of their candidates. True demonic evil that also serves corporatist/oligarchist power. GOP are far worse. Total zionist supremacists with added focus of Zionist first christofascism and white supremacism. Corporatist/Oligarchist supremacism is even stronger than incumbent power protection. All in on dead ender climate terrorist energy, and overt war goals to increase oil profits in complete lockstep with deranged lunatic in chief.
There absolutely is a big difference in voting block power, and in minimizing the oppression level of Americans. You should still vote for the lesser subhuman demonic zionazi evil.
There is strong potential for primary campaigns to oppose Israel supremacism of candidates, and even if opponents get 100x more funding, their demonic zionazi allegiances could theoretically harm their vote totals.
It’s dot ml communities. Fuckem.
@[email protected] explained why your comments were being perceived as problematic but you didn’t didn’t read the room. You might actually be in agreement with the community, but your choice of words reads as “a little genocide is acceptable.”
All genocide is unacceptable. All mass murder is unacceptable. Putting the unacceptable onto a scale of better or worse is a liberal propaganda tactic that doesn’t fly in leftist spaces. Your mistake was conflating the concept of “voting to minimize harm in a captured system” with “my genocide is more ethical than their genocide,” which is a fallacy. No genocides are ethical.
isn’t making the minimally harmful choice always ethical?
i think it’s about morality than ethics but ethics and economics (ironically) used to be connected, and part of the same discipline. Economics being quantifiable theories, and ethics being unquantifiable.
In this case, you could easily say any genocide is infinitely bad. So comparing one genocide to two genocides isn’t really possible… it’s an unquantifiable loss.
however in this case, in the captured system where two parties are pretty much the only possible winner, we can make an ethical argument for voting for the “lesser genocide”, but really only because they’re both propping up the same genocidal regime, but one is much more into it, wants to develop buildings where the people were, as well as wage other genocides.
besides, it’s much better to be able to protest without being labeled a terrorist and disappeared to some secret, third world torture prison (like cecot and liberia).
it’s really hard to think of a worse president.
i don’t see how “i want to stop this genocide and others” translates into “a little genocide is okay”. Or normalizing genocide…
i remember shortly before they switched from biden to harris, harris released a statement about protestors calling them all antisemitic and completely ignoring what they were actually protesting, and i hate her with all of my heart for that.
but she never wanted to arrest them and deport them to a foreign torture prison for life.even in math, some infinities are greater than others. I’ve seen interviews with palestinians that said they’d prefer Harris for the same reasons.
like if someone said they’ll either shoot you or stab you and you get to choose, you wouldn’t say nothing because that makes a little bit of stabbing okay.
Just read through the comments- lmao, YDM. Fascist apologia def seems to fit rule 1 of both the instance and community
Side note: What do you think “shitlib” means?
Edit:
Words OP doesn’t know the meaning of:
- shitlib
- defend
- support
- apologia
- logic
- consequentialism
- semantics
- option
It’s not fascist apologia, I directly stated that I’m not defending anything the Democrats do or fail to do, they are merely the best option in current elections. Two party elections are a classic trolley problem, and choosing to not pull the lever is still making a choice in the system.
You’re arguing from a consequentialist ethical framework as if it’s the default, while also failing to see the broader consequences of “lesser-evilism”
Not pulling the lever is a valid option even from a consequentialist perspective (as well as, of course, from a deontological perspective or a virtue ethics perspective).
The trolley problem, as a thought experiment, does not exist to justify consequentialism, but to distinguish it from other ethical frameworks.
You are more than defending the Democrats- you’re actively supporting them. Your comments demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of both ethics and logic, and you’re looking at the problem from an extremely narrow perspective.
You are more than defending the Democrats- you’re actively supporting them
I’m advocating the lesser evil, which in this case in Democrats. That’s not defending nor supporting, they happen to be the best choice. If another party bomes a Big 2 (or if voting reform is implemented and they don’t need to be) then I’ll gladly hop ship to a party better than Democrats. But the current reality is only Democrats and Republicans win elections.
Your comments demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of both ethics and logic
I don’t think that’s been demonstrated.
and you’re looking at the problem from an extremely narrow perspective.
I’m looking at the problem pragmatically, if it results in less people suffering, that’s the vote that should be cast.
On the contrary, I think you’re looking at it from an extremely narrow purity perspective. Not pulling the lever is allowing any outcome to happen, even one you know to be worse.
I don’t think that’s been demonstrated.
You continue to demonstrate it
Voting for dems is literally supporting them. Arguing in their favor is very much defending them.
You’d benefit to realize that your ethical framework is not the default. Additionally, you are blatantly implementing your own framework (consequentialism) extremely narrowly.
A consequentialist (like yourself) could just as easily argue that lesser-evilism has greater long term consequences that render the short term relief irrelevant.
Consequentialism is not the end all be all of ethics. In fact, it can very easily be used to justify genocide. While you are indirectly doing this, I mean much more blatantly (e.g., “suffering is bad, so we should sterilize everyone to end the human race and therefore end suffering”).
A deontological framework argues that by “pulling the lever” you are now responsible for killing someone, whereas by abstaining you are not responsible (but those aren’t the only options in the real life political scenario, to be clear). I understand that your ethical framework suggests that abstaining makes one complicit in the greater consequences, but this is a perspective (opinion) and not a fact. And again, this perspective ignores the broader consequences down the road that come from lesser-evilism
But they are the only two options, mathematically only a Democrat or a Republican will win a United States First Past The Post election. Those are truly the only outcomes that can happen, barring significant changes which I am also advocating for. You can pretend this is debate club all you want, but if you have the choice to do something to avoid suffering and you do nothing, you are (in part) responsible for the suffering through inaction.
Anyway, strawman because I am not a consequentialist, merely advocating for pragmatic voting.
wow great meme friendo, very cool!
After seeing your reactions to mild criticism to millionaires who don’t care about you, you deserve more. Fuck off you diet fascist.
Edit: VGA, if you’re going to downvote everyone here, you could explain why you think people are wrong.
whaaaat the fuuuuck
oh, then there’s this bit from you:
why would Democrats not be the clear superior if only because they don’t cause needless suffering to interior minorities?
tell us you’re a white male without telling us. you are so out of touch with reality, it’s a wonder you can tie your fucking shoes.
PTB or triggered shitlib?
motherfucker, YOU are the triggered shitlib.
Yes, assuming Democrats and Republicans have 100% identical foreign policy, and the only difference is less oppression on marginalized groups, why does that not make them the clear superior choice in a two party election? Why are you willing to let more suffering happen because the lesser evil isn’t lesser enough?
lmao shut your fucking mouth about suffering, you piece of shit. you don’t get to lecture people about suffering after saying shit like that, you disgusting liberal asswipe.
Cope and seethe, you dehumanize people for ideological purposes, your boos mean nothing.
which is why you ran here to complain about getting banned, you shitlib. you need our sympathy for your assnine takes in order to make you feel good about being unconcerned with the suffering of minorities.
you will never be a good person.
Wow, what an insufferable goof.
Hope things get better and/or you grow out of it.
grow out of hating fascists? not likely.
The person you’re being an asshole at is clearly not a fascist.
It seems like you’re angry, want an excuse to shit on people and are wrapping it in politics you don’t seem to understand.
Like I said, hope you grow out of it or things get better.
Wanting things to be better for marginalized people does not a fascist make.
you need our sympathy for your assnine takes in order to make you feel good about being unconcerned with the suffering of minorities
Umm honey you’re the one unconcerned with minorities suffering. Are you feeling okay? You’re clearly having issues projecting.
don’t call people “honey” unless you want to catch a instance ban. I’m not your fucking honey.
Oh my bad, shitlib motherfucker. How many marginalized lives have you made worse today?
If every election is a decision between the lesser of two evils and both evils become more evil over time then harm isn’t actually reduced in the long run.
The Democrats lost because they were genocidal. The Democrats are to blame for that, for being genocidal, not voters who refused to support genocide.
Do you want genocide? If not, you cannot in good conscious vote for a genocidal candidate. If you vote for genocide, and genocide happens, you got what you voted for.
Don’t like it? Take it up with the DNC.
and both evils become more evil over time
Has that actually happened though? There are certainly many issues Democrats have been improving on since Clinton.
The Democrats lost because they were genocidal
Irrelevant, I don’t care why they lost, I’m asserting that they would have been better. Thank you for your soapbox though.
The Democrats are to blame for that, for being genocidal, not voters who refused to support genocide
Sure, but those voters are also to blame for the non-genocide issues which get worse when the Democrats lose.
Do you want genocide? If not, you cannot in good conscious vote for a genocidal candidate. If you vote for genocide, and genocide happens, you got what you voted for.
This is simplistic thinking which ignores the reality of the situation. The only thing a voter can do in a general election is pick the party that more closely aligns with their values, that does not mean ALL of the party’s values are the voters, but simply the more palatable one.
So yeah, genocide sucks, but not doing your electoral part means all the extra bullshit Republicans do[1] is what you voted when you abstain.
1: since clearly the people who have problems with what I say don’t care about minorities being harassed, kidnapped, and killed, I’ll keep it simple with “doing nothing about the climate catastrophe” and “being egregiously pro-business/anti-consumer,” maybe with a side of “overwhelmingly anti-labor.”
Don’t like it? Take it up with the DNC.
Oh thank you for asking, I have actually.
and both evils become more evil over time
Has that actually happened though? There are certainly many issues Democrats have been improving on since Clinton.
There’s no way you can be serious. How sheltered are you?
Are you like some rich white guy who has no working class friends or something? I genuinely don’t understand.
There’s no way you can be serious. How sheltered are you?
How sheltered are YOU? America is a conservative country and things change slowly, but they do change. Some thing have improved in my lifetime, I don’t think that’s a controversial statement. Just because capitalism hasn’t been completely overthrown yet doesn’t mean there is no change.
I’m a union rep, so not sheltered at all. I have a front row seat to the degradation of society. Things have been consistently getting worse since the '70s at least.
Sure, some things have improved, nobody is denying that. Some things have improved, but many more significant things have gotten worse. The thing is, the stuff that has improved is like +5 improvement, and the things that have gotten worse is like -100.
TVs are cheaper, but food, rent and childcare are more expensive, all relative to wages, just for an example.
I want to go back a step, and try to understand you here. What do you do for work?
Things have been consistently getting worse since the '70s at least.
Well, except the acceptance of queer people, of course. Women’s lib is also much more widely accepted, if we’re going that far back.
Sure, some things have improved, nobody is denying that
Nobody except you?
The thing is, the stuff that has improved is like +5 improvement, and the things that have gotten worse is like -100.
I don’t disagree.
I want to go back a step, and try to understand you here. What do you do for work?
I do unskilled labor.
Strawman much?
No, I try not to. How do you think I’ve misrepresented them?
I don’t know what people expect will happen when they go into leftist communities or even just communities run by leftists and start spouting shitlib electoralist apologia.
The same thing the DNC expects when they trot out their chosen candidate at the behest of the donors instead of a popular progressive
