Part of the issue is that online, it’s often hard to tell the difference between someone who is genuinely asking questions and someone who is asking questions in bad faith. The (relative) anonymity between people is definitely a hindrance here, you can often not easily tell if the person you’re talking to is 15 or 30.
The last bit really speaks to me. “So they want a cookie for basic behavior??” YES THEY’RE CHILDREN. COOKIES ARE THE DRIVING MARKET FORCE IN PRETEENS. GIVE THE KID THE DAMN COOKIE.
Cookies are my driving force, and I am in my 60s.
The difference between liberal feminism and leftist feminism.
Yeah, let’s put a label on it because we really have to smear someone somehow. I think the messaging must have gone right over your head.
No.
They’re making a summary of distinctions made by a good deal of academics.
You are just unaware of these as pre-existing terms, so you think this person is the first person to put an adjective in front of feminism.
They are not.
Yes, I’m smearing Liberals.
What the person did there blaming kids to be inherently bad is a classic example of reactionary politics which Liberals specialise in plus given the history of liberal feminism particulalry in the US, I dont get why you’re offended.
Other aspects of Liberal femnism include:
- Thinking only specific cultures are enlightened enough to do feminism because other cultures might be “barbaric”
- Disdain for the working women who do menial jobs(prevelant in my country)
- Savarna Femnisim(upper caste femnisim) - related to the previous point but in this instance unique to upper class caste system practionerd in the subcontinent
- Blaming people of certain communities of being misoynistic bc they didn’t vote in a war criminal - related to the first point and prevelant in you know where
Point of all that yapping isn’t just about putting in “labels”. My point was recognising the fact that without having overall class consciousness feminism is useless as that version of feminism isn’t truly universal and doesnt actually tackle conditions as to why right-wing or misogyny appears. It’s the nature versus nurture argument which itself ties in to historical materialism. Sure empathizing with nurture vis-a-vis nature is not exlcusive to Marxism, but being a reactionary in regards to these sure is a lot more prevalant. Its the same reason you hear “Palestinians are inherently antisemitic” argument over and over again from imperial core liberals.
Yhank you for listening to my TED talk.
Sincerely,
Person who you will most certainly call an insane tankie for having the most milquetoast lefty opinion.
For what its worth, this anarchist agrees with you.
Big reason why I try to report and shutdown blatantly misandrist shit I see in leftist spaces. It’s not clever, it’s not funny, maybe it feels good for the person saying it but there is no difference in my eyes between a misandrist and a misogynist. Putting people down based upon intrinsic characteristics they cannot change is the exact kind of behavior done by conservatives.
You can hold everything that is in this post true to your heart and still understand the very real fact that misandry doesn’t exist.
changing the defenition of misandry is just as bullshit as changing the definition of antisemitism to include critism of isreal.
misandry doesnt exist for the same reason reverse racism doesnt exist. there is no system of oppression against men, there is no system of oppression against white people. and all misogyny/racism is inherently systemic.
you are confusing a personal prejudice caused by systemic mistreatment with systemic mistreatment. it is an important distinction to make.
men hating women is misogyny because men have societal power over women. women hating men due to discrimination theyve faced is just them hating their oppressors. when men receive lower salaries than women, have lower rights than women, have their bodies policed like women, are treated like objects and property like women, and are raped and murdered like women, then we can say that misandry is a real thing.
not everything is for you, not everything is about you. you can acknowledge that things and behaviors are bad without pretending they are systems of oppression. if you would prefer to quote a dictionary than actually educate yourself then thats fine, but it doesnt make it any more real.
“you being more offended by the mere implication that some of your peers can be bad than by the harm that they actually cause makes you part of the problem”
This is some LilyOrchard double standard typeshit… is that you Lily?
All your arguments hinge on broad generalizations and so they can be dismissed offhand. You make the mistake of thinking that if Group A has majority power vs Group B, then that means they have absolute power. You completely diminish and cut down any power or leverage that Group B has. Basically doing learned helplessness to justify prejudice. You ignore any cases where your assumption doesn’t hold true or use those instances to justify “well it’s okay if they do it back!”, completely negating your whole point that “doing that thing is bad”.
this is,,,, this is just a “misogyny isnt systemic” argument
broad generalizations such as “men have systemic power over women” and “men get paid more than women”
next will you say black people can be racist towards white people?
If you think that only white straight men have a monopoly on bigotry and hate, you are a lost cause.
if you think that the systemic oppression of women as people for the benefit of men is in any way shape or form comparable to “this girl was mean to me this one time”, you are a lost cause.
the idea of “misandry” has always been weaponized against women in a misogynistic way by denying them even the ability to express anger at their oppression. women who “hate men” would not hate men if men did not systemically oppress them in every aspect of life. you can say “misandry is real its just not systemic” if you want, but its like saying “all lives matter” has a meaning outside of its use as a racist dogwhistle. not a very serious take. additionally, you cant say that while also comparing it to misogyny, which is systemic.
gender essentialism and bioessentialism are bad, we all agree on this! we dont have to silence women talking about actual issues and experiences in order to do so.
if you are a man and you feel the need to say how misandry totally is a real problem, you have to remember first that you are benefiting from patriarchy right now whether you like it or not
like i said to begin with, the line of reasoning that misandry exists is the same line of reasoning that is used to say reverse racism exists. and last i checked we all know that isnt the case.
