Yep. Communism by Revolution has shown again and again to simply replace the thing they wanted to abolish with a class of untouchable leaders reigning like the kings of old.
This is an interesting statement. You do realize I was talking about the Soviet Union, yeah? You’re attempting to make an outrageous statement about the ultimate union. The one comprised of the entire working class.
I do understand that a westerner would find it hard to imagine, which is expected. We work jobs we often hate for less than we’re worth, all while being one slip away from being homeless. It’s not great.
Also, unions weren’t outlawed in the USSR nor China. They both had/have a single giant union. Both governments serve(d) to protect the working from the ruling class.
You don’t really need a union to negotiate terms in the same was as you do in the west. You already have universal health care, housing, education, etc…
I suppose the union could serve to protect workers from safety issues, which I’m sure wouldn’t be a huge issue in a socialist environment.
Living conditions in China are surpassing the west. Education is one of the primary focuses, just as it was in the USSR. An educated work force is a happy, productive work force.
I think your opinion of the east may be a little outdated, and much of it was most likely never true… The US budgets millions to just make shit up. I’m sure European countries and the UK play the same manipulative game.
Progress is happening very quickly. Anyways, I wish you well. We hold different opinions, but I think we’re on the same side of the war.
The red scare hasn’t died off, even after the USSR was killed. I highly suggest digging into some good literature. You can’t expect the very exploitative west to offer up any unbiased information.
yeah, it’s a shame great man Lenin betrayed everyone by not pressing the communism button as soon as Bolsheviks and proletariat took state power, didn’t use mind control magic on the entire world to ensure a global proletarian revolution and immediately made the state irrelevant so it withered away
almost as if the form that proletariat power takes shape in is irrelevant to the “withering away of the state” concept, if you took the time to read anything about it you’d see that it’s predominantly economic transformation that matters
Ah sorry, should’ve specified “Dictatorship of the proletariat” instead, my bad. If the dictatorship is a handful of dudes in a mansion dictating stuff with impunity while gulaging everyone who disagrees, spoiler allert, it’s not a dictatorship consisting of the entire working class. That’s not proletariat power.
And do tell what incentive this ruling class has to induce the economic transformation which would diminish their position of power within the society?
Bro it’s just a dacha. A huge dacha filled with all the people who make all the meaningful decisions with as much opacity as possible. But it’s okay because they’re technically revocable by the constituents who are also, coincidentally, their clients in a vast patron-client network.
DOTP is a period where proletariat seize state power, radically transforming it to pursue their class interests and historic task, that being the end of capitalism as a whole. This class power organizes itself politically through specific organs, one such possible organization being a party that comes from the revolutionary proletariat itself, not something that’s politically autonomous.
Soviet Russia for the first few years was a DOTP, Bolsheviks were genuinely hard at work trying to achieve the first pre-requisite for the abolishment of capitalism, that being an international revolution - you can’t have socialism in one country. However, those revolutions were crushed, Soviet Russia was completely isolated and the state stopped being a DOTP around 1920, with Bolsheviks starting to play for survival rather than advancement of proletariat interests. Concessions were brought in like NEP, later on it had overgone a Stalinist counter-revolution and national bourgeois interests took a grip.
Tried to keep it brief without going into too much detail, but tldr: USSR didn’t fail because le evil cabal of authoritarians, but because the revolution had failed. The ruling class was pursuing economic transformation until it couldn’t and the organ lost its class character.
If only there was theory written about it, supported by a scientific method of historical analysis that was way ahead of it’s time…
Lenin ditched that in favour of vanguardism and the rest is history.
Yep. Communism by Revolution has shown again and again to simply replace the thing they wanted to abolish with a class of untouchable leaders reigning like the kings of old.
That’s not true at all. The USSR was run by massive committees filled with workers. These details aren’t taught in the west.
Is that why they made unions fucking illegal? Or why China currently outlaws unions?
This is an interesting statement. You do realize I was talking about the Soviet Union, yeah? You’re attempting to make an outrageous statement about the ultimate union. The one comprised of the entire working class.
I do understand that a westerner would find it hard to imagine, which is expected. We work jobs we often hate for less than we’re worth, all while being one slip away from being homeless. It’s not great.
Sure, the ultimate union… which prohibited any other unions 🙄
Also, unions weren’t outlawed in the USSR nor China. They both had/have a single giant union. Both governments serve(d) to protect the working from the ruling class.
You don’t really need a union to negotiate terms in the same was as you do in the west. You already have universal health care, housing, education, etc… I suppose the union could serve to protect workers from safety issues, which I’m sure wouldn’t be a huge issue in a socialist environment.
Living conditions in China are surpassing the west. Education is one of the primary focuses, just as it was in the USSR. An educated work force is a happy, productive work force.
I think your opinion of the east may be a little outdated, and much of it was most likely never true… The US budgets millions to just make shit up. I’m sure European countries and the UK play the same manipulative game.
Progress is happening very quickly. Anyways, I wish you well. We hold different opinions, but I think we’re on the same side of the war.
Right, a single giant union… subordinated to the vanguard. Very legit.
I somehow doubt that. Could you provide us with a source?
Source: some essay by Lenin throwing a bitch fit
Absolutely. A couple of great books:
This Soviet World by Anna Louise Strong
Soviet Democracy by Pat Sloan
You can lead a noob to water, but you can’t make them drink.
There’s currently a reading group going over This Soviet World @ https://lemmygrad.ml/post/12259962
It’s pretty good!
The red scare hasn’t died off, even after the USSR was killed. I highly suggest digging into some good literature. You can’t expect the very exploitative west to offer up any unbiased information.
Okay, I will give those a read
Lol, you mean like the party commitee in China? The one where whatever Xi says happens, happens?
🤣
yeah, it’s a shame great man Lenin betrayed everyone by not pressing the communism button as soon as Bolsheviks and proletariat took state power, didn’t use mind control magic on the entire world to ensure a global proletarian revolution and immediately made the state irrelevant so it withered away
almost as if the form that proletariat power takes shape in is irrelevant to the “withering away of the state” concept, if you took the time to read anything about it you’d see that it’s predominantly economic transformation that matters
Ah sorry, should’ve specified “Dictatorship of the proletariat” instead, my bad. If the dictatorship is a handful of dudes in a mansion dictating stuff with impunity while gulaging everyone who disagrees, spoiler allert, it’s not a dictatorship consisting of the entire working class. That’s not proletariat power.
And do tell what incentive this ruling class has to induce the economic transformation which would diminish their position of power within the society?
how dare you. that is the People’s mansion.
Bro it’s just a dacha. A huge dacha filled with all the people who make all the meaningful decisions with as much opacity as possible. But it’s okay because they’re technically revocable by the constituents who are also, coincidentally, their clients in a vast patron-client network.
DOTP is a period where proletariat seize state power, radically transforming it to pursue their class interests and historic task, that being the end of capitalism as a whole. This class power organizes itself politically through specific organs, one such possible organization being a party that comes from the revolutionary proletariat itself, not something that’s politically autonomous.
Soviet Russia for the first few years was a DOTP, Bolsheviks were genuinely hard at work trying to achieve the first pre-requisite for the abolishment of capitalism, that being an international revolution - you can’t have socialism in one country. However, those revolutions were crushed, Soviet Russia was completely isolated and the state stopped being a DOTP around 1920, with Bolsheviks starting to play for survival rather than advancement of proletariat interests. Concessions were brought in like NEP, later on it had overgone a Stalinist counter-revolution and national bourgeois interests took a grip.
Tried to keep it brief without going into too much detail, but tldr: USSR didn’t fail because le evil cabal of authoritarians, but because the revolution had failed. The ruling class was pursuing economic transformation until it couldn’t and the organ lost its class character.
oh here we go, the Read More Theory Club once again blaming everyone but themselves for their shitty political theory never getting off the ground.
No you see anarchkiddies are stupid for helping people and the real socialists read theory and ignore horrors around them.
Famously that’s how they got things done.