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Gotta love it when people say “Americans tell everyone else what to do and how to do it” but also go “we should tell Americans what to do and how to do it”
The hypocrisy knows no bounds! (For the Europeans out there, the hypocrisy knows no 1.609 metric bounds)
Now hold on a minute this was all your idea.
yeah, the NFL is the same exact way. every game starts with a foot kicking a ball, therefore it is football
soccer is short for association football, englanders created it, therefore it is soccer
It’s not a sphere, therefore it’s not a ball. It’s shaped like more like an egg.
You kick it once with your foot, then you carry it with your hand.
It’s not football, its HANDEGG.
we’ll call it handegg for a few years then switch back to football once europeans unanimously call it handegg, then we’ll make fun of them for it
So dumb it hurts,
The term “soccer” was invented in England in the late 19th century by university students. It is widely attributed to Charles Wredford-Brown, an Oxford student.
And the fact that everyone ignores that Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and Ireland also call it soccer
It’s mixed in Canada. If you’re talking about football then people will know what you mean.
Aussie Rules or Aussie Football when talking about that.
Charles Wredford-Brown
I think it would have been more believable if the guy had been called Sir Nigel Britishman-Worcestershiresauce
This is a joke name surely
That ridiculous name was all Britain’s fault
Soccer is a British word though, but predominantly southerner / Oxfordian.
Association Football used to get contracted to Assoc or Soc to differentiate it from Rugby Football.
And in Oxford, they historically liked to add -er to the end of things; still in parlance today is calling Rugby “rugger”, £5 note “fiver”, the Bodleian Library “Bodder”.
Assoc became “soccer”.
It’s not an American thing. It’s a posh southern England thing that got exported to the states by American students at Oxford returning stateside and bringing the game back with them.
It’s not just to distinguish it from rugby football. There are dozens of different types of games of football. Association football is just the one that got particularly popular across the world.
So it should be pronounced like so-ser?
In Scotland, yes.
I watched several documentaries over the years that said it is because at the time Football Clubs were referred to as Social Clubs and the team was just part of the Social Club. The clubs were referred to as “Socs” pronounced like the footwear Socks, and the Teams would play what was referred to a s “Soccer” as in Sock-er. Then this got exported to various people in North America, mostly from the South and West of England. Then it fell out of usage in England but no one told us over here in North America so we kept using the term.
So is it “sock-urh” or “soe’sh-ur”? The latter being like “social” but with an -er ending. Because that’s how ‘association’ is pronounced.
Where is “association” pronounced like that, if I may ask? I could only find the pronunciation I’m familiar with, which is this: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/english/association
To maybe be more clear: you are implying that the c in “soc” is pronounced like a “sh” when it’s the t in “tion”.
(Edit: missed some letters.)
Yeah, that’s how I pronounce ‘association’ as well.
I see now that I said it wrong. The ‘c’ in ‘association’ is pronounced like an ‘s’, so is it ‘so-ser’? Like saying “so-so” but with an -er at the end?
So, if I may ask, how do you pronounce soccer?
I pronounce it the same as other people here: “sock-urh”. I was just confused about the “association” thing, so thanks for clearing that up!
To maybe be more clear: you are implying that the c in “soc” is pronounced like a “sh” when it’s the t in “tion”.
Is it not? How do you pronounce it?
Also I’m pretty sure that’s what the “ʃən” at the end of the pronunciation thing means.
Looking at the sound-by-sound pronunciation, it seems to confirm this.
/ʃ/ as in she
/ən/ as in sudden
I think the question was whether or not people pronounce the “soc” in “soccer” the same as they pronounce it in “association” (“soʃ” I guess), or like “sock”
I did provide a link where both the British and the American pronunciation treat the c as an s sound. They have the IPA as /əˌsəʊ.siˈeɪ.ʃən/ for both dialects. “soc” does contain the c, not the t.
As I said, I’m not debating that the t in “tion” is pronounced that way (at least I tried to be clear, maybe I muddled it even more), but I have always pronounced the c as an s sound, and it appears Cambridge agrees with me.
Some British English dialects do use a ʃ sound for the C in “association”. OED has it listed for both UK and USA, though I don’t personally know what the US situation is there
The pronunciation tab there is paywalled, but in the OED app on my phone, they list /əˌsəʊsiˈeɪʃn/, followed by /əˌsəʊʃiˈeɪʃn/ in the pronunciation section. I honestly can’t recall ever hearing a single person in the US pronounce it /əˌsəʊʃiˈeɪʃn/, and though I won’t say nobody does, the other pronunciation is far and away more common, where the ‘c’ and ‘t’ make entirely distinct sounds.
Counterintuitively it’s “sock-urh”.
Cool origin. Still an US thing if only people from the US do it.
“The origin is British so it’s your fault we do it” sounds like “mom didn’t educate me so it’s her fault I’m a deadbeat - 40y.o. adult”.
You are allowed to improve your language.
Would it be an improvement? Languages are fluid, etymology is complicated, and things are called what they’re called.
Yet there is not a single British person who calls it soccer.
This isn’t a strong argument; Brits mangle the language every time they open their mouths.
It’s not just Brits, literally the whole world calls it football except for one country which thinks it is right and everyone else is wrong.
So, what you’re saying is the majority of first-language English speakers call it soccer?
Also, show some fucking respect to Canada.
If that makes you feel better then sure, let’s forget the billions of other people in the world who also call it football.
You want to blame someone, blame yourselves since you’re the ones who created and colonized the word.
https://www.britannica.com/story/why-do-some-people-call-football-soccer
I wont hear from the UK about speaking English correctly. You are not serious people.
Precisely. It was called soccer as a joke
My brother in christ YOU CALLED IT SOCCER
I just love it when Americans hear some retarded shit Britain did and then accuse all of Europe for doing it.
They also left the union. Are you gonna blame all of Europe for leaving the EU?
All of Europe - except for Britain, apparently - call it football.
Actually I believe it’s called “Football” because most ball games were originally played on horseback.
Football (Soccer) was one of the first ball games to be played on foot, hence Foot-ball
That’s why Rugby, Canadian Football, Australian Football, and American Football are also types of “Football”.
Also, the name “Soccer” was literally invented in England. It’s short for “Association Football” (Association - Assoc - Soccer) so shut the f*** up
Man, Baseball with horses would be wild.
That’s basically extreme polo isn’t it?
BaseballfootbatIn Australian AFL, otherwise known as Aussie Rules, it’s pretty common to need to jump high enough that you get another person to launch you. Imagine that from horseback! I’d watch.
Ten Pin Bowling, on horseback.
Actually I believe it’s called “Football” because most ball games were originally played on horseback.
hmmm are you sure about that? I do not know with certainty but today playing a sport with a horse would be a high demand, back in the days it would have been an even bigger one so I sincerely doubt “most ball games” were originally played on horseback when not having a horse was that much easier
That’s like saying “we call them Earthmobiles because back then, most vehicles were just planes” (no way planes were common before cars)
You are sort of right regarding the origin of soccer, but it was intended to distinguish football played by the association rules vs other types of football which were popular at the time.
From Wikipedia:
Association football is part of a family of football codes that emerged from various ball games played worldwide since antiquity. The word “association” in this term refers to the Football Association (the FA), founded in London in 1863, which published the first set of rules for the sport that same year.[8] The term was coined to distinguish the type of football played in accordance with the FA rules from other types that were gaining popularity at the time, particularly rugby football.[9] Heading from The Sportsman front page of 25 November 1910, illustrating the continued use of the word “football” to encompass both rugby and association football.
The term soccer comes from Oxford “-er” slang, which was prevalent at the University of Oxford in England from about 1875, and is thought to have been borrowed from the slang of Rugby School. Initially spelt assoccer (a shortening of “association”), it was later reduced to the modern spelling.[10][11] Early alternative spellings included socca and socker.[9] This form of slang also gave rise to rugger for rugby football, fiver and tenner for five pound and ten pound notes, and the now-archaic footer that was also a name for association football.[12]
Within the English-speaking world, association football is now usually called simply “football” in Great Britain and most of Ulster in the north of Ireland,[13] whereas people usually call it “soccer” in regions and countries where other codes of football are prevalent, such as Australia,[14] Canada, South Africa, most of Ireland (excluding Ulster),[15] and the United States. A notable exception is New Zealand, where in the first two decades of the 21st century, under the influence of international television, “football” has been gaining prevalence, despite the dominance of other codes of football, namely rugby union and rugby league.[16]
Yes it was called football because the peasants played it on their feet while the nobles played polo and other equestrian sports. There’s a huge documented history, several Kings in English history all had a take on the issue. Some thought it was awful because they hated seeing their peasants creating a spectacle and sometimes they got hurt and couldn’t work, but other kings leaned into it and used it to gain favor with the lower classes.
According to wikipedia, what you claim is true but also there is documented history of the “foot” part coming up because of the kicking of the ball from really far back
The truth is we do not seem to know which of the 2 sources truly directed the current name… very likely both contributed
That doesn’t make sense because most forms of football (rugby and american etc) use mostly the hands to carry the ball. The name was never about kicking, it was about playing on foot, until John Cleese made a joke about it. There’s sources going back to the middle ages about it.
The word “football” precedes all those modern sports you are referring to.
As I said, from the wikipedia article, it seems there is a bit of both
“As with pre-codified mob football, the antecedent of all modern football codes, these medieval games involved more handling of the ball than kicking it.[39][3]” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_football
Umm… ever heard of Polo? Buzkashi? Chovgan? Pato? All of those are ball games played on horseback (except Buzkashi which is played on horseback but uses a a goat carcass instead of a ball)
Your analogy is also false because cars were invented before planes.
1885–1886: Benz Patent-Motorwagen becomes the first practical automobile.
1903: Orville Wright and Wilbur Wright achieve the first powered, controlled airplane flight with the Wright Flyer.
(except Buzkashi which is played on horseback but uses a a goat carcass instead of a ball)
wait…what?
Yes, you read that correctly…
A decapitated, disemboweled goat is surprisingly hard to tear apart. The hide and connective tissue can withstand dozens of riders yanking it around at full gallop.
Are you telling me a goat ball is the GOAT of balls?
Yes, I suppose that is what i’m saying
Umm… ever heard of Polo? Buzkashi? Chovgan? Pato? All of those are ball games played on horseback (except Buzkashi which is played on horseback but uses a a goat carcass instead of a ball)
Your analogy is also false because cars were invented before planes.
That was exactly my point… do you think nobody thought of kicking a ball around BEFORE they decided to break horses, train them and then push a ball around with a stick while on horseback?
To risk a valuable commodity as a horse in a game, it implies humanity was already well off enough (at least some people) to keep horses around with relative ease
My point was that the simplest form of a sport (on foot) would have likely existed (and indeed they did) WAAAAAAYYYYY before we decided to play sports on horses
At the end of the day, it seems both sources are valid: Horseback sports were the only ones officially recognized during medieval times; AS WELL AS, historical records showing games played by kicking balls from way before. Which of those 2 sources or both to a certain extent are part of the etymology of the modern word “football”
do you think nobody thought of kicking a ball around BEFORE they decided to break horses
of course they did, but why would a self respecting elite adopt peasant terminology for a beloved pass time? How could it get away with skewing early rules and standards if they couldb’t frame it entirely as theur own? How could they exclusively commodify it if it were not mythologized as their own creation?
Of course these point are vastly irrelevant to the discussion at hand but, make no mistake, i’d never have made them if they were to begin with.
Sure, but the term Football wasn’t coined when ball games were invented. It was coined much later when there were already lots of different sports.
Among the sports people people played at the time, Football was one where the participants are on foot.
Most sports were played (and still are) on foot
Look I get your point but neither my original theory (foot = kicking) or yours (foot = not on horse) have been proven to be the “real” source of the word football today; maybe it’s one or the other OR influenced by both sources
this is an interesting read wherever you might sit on the name origin theory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football
particularly the history section
Yes it fucking is
I barely know 'er!
Y’all are the ones who came up with the name soccer.
But that ball is not shaped like a foot
“A good compromise is when both parties are dissatisfied”
― Larry David
Thusly, I call the boring game “soccer” and the often decided by refs game where everyone has brain damage “gridiron”. Nobody wins, which is beautiful in its own way.
