Hello people, my family recently bought a Renault 5 e-tech. The car itself is great, but there are some aspects that creep me out, especially the driver-facing camera. We didn’t actually know that such a camera existed before we bought the car, it was only mentioned as the car was given to us.
The cameras official purpose is to see, if you are tired and paying attention to the road, by some “AI magic”, I suppose. You can also let it scan your face, so that you automatically get logged into your profile.
I personally think, that that is kinda creepy, especially as there is no visual indication if the camera is currently recording and no official way to disable the camera hardware-wise. When it is being coverd, the car immediately complains about it.
When talking to friends or family about it, I got one of two reactions: equal concern, or “nice feature actually”, “what about the camera on your laptop?”, “you are way too paranoid”, “I have noting to hide; it is only me driving being recorded”.
I have also seen such cameras in other cars, BYD for example.
What do you think, is this creepy or am I too paranoid? Does anyone know where the actual data is processed, on device or on some cloud server? Do you have any experience with such cameras? I couldn’t really find any information about it on the internet.
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I used to be on the engineering team that worked on the development of a similar camera. For what it’s worth, at the time: there was no AI involved, we only used good old image processing algorithms. And the camera (all cameras, lidars, or radars on the car BTW) does not record anything. It treats images as they come. There’s almost no storage space on the car for all the image data generated.
All this might have changed since then (especially the AI part) but I’m still relatively confident that car systems don’t have the storage for all this data.
Additionally, since this is a European brand, I think it would be quite difficult to legally retain personal information like that. It was already difficult during the development phase.
I’m not saying they wouldn’t be above ominous shenanigans, but it would be difficult.
“what about the camera on your laptop”
God I hate these people. That camera has been covered by duct tape for years for very good reasons. A lot of them actually apply to a driver-facing camera in my car, coincidentally.
Btw OP, I think Renault has a contract with PalantirAs an insider of the automotive industry I can say:
- these devices are added due to regulations
- Yes. It is creepy
- functionality is computed and performed onboard the car, it doesn’t rely on any connection to the outside to function
- however, it could very well be sending data back to the mothership. They are legally obligated to get your explicit consent as per GDPR law
- the software is completely closed-source and there is no chance we get any information about it. It’s all private intellectual property. Actually, the Car manufacturers (in this case Renault) almost always requires all suppliers of such equipment to ensure there is ZERO Open-source code in the delivered product. Suppliers are audited to prove they have not reused any Open-source code, piece of code or libraries.
Log into your profile? On your car? Your car logs you in to a profile? What the fuck
This car also comes with a ChatGPT based AI assistant which has a cursed Microsoft’s Clippy vibe, so it watches, listens to everything. Why would anybody want that?
Good to know, thanks!
It is actually creepy, privacy invading, and dangerous in some cases, I think about the guy who made a video working in the woods, simulating a chainsaw accident, and the car would not start because the driver is not 100% able due adrenaline rush visible on his face.
That said, it is a mandatory feature from EU made in 2019 for public safety, with an affiched goal to reduce road deaths. The datas would be anonymous, exploited for statistics and must respect UE rgpd. In theory!
In one hand I find dangerous to track and supervise a population, in the other hand I see way too much dangerous behaviors on the road, especially around pedestrians and bikers, and a system that would say to the driver “hey you fucked up here, don’t do it again” would be nice.
Just an anecdote, an emergency brake system detected me walking and saved my life by breaking hard cause the driver was distracted (I was on a crosswalk), otherwise I would have been send to orbit.
Thank god for duct tape
It’s creepy. And it may make me an asshole to say, but I’d never want an interior camera in the event of an accident. It makes the following court case so much more gray, since you now introduce the opportunity to say “they were on the phone, talking, listening to music, whatever” and shift what should be a clear cut case into something more.
Wasn’t there some news a while ago that talked about how bad car companies handle user data?
Mozilla’s latest edition of *Privacy Not Included reveals how 25 major car brands collect and share deeply personal data, including sexual activity, facial expressions, and genetic and health information
[…]Says Jen Caltrider, *PNI Program Director: “Many people think of their car as a private space — somewhere to call your doctor, have a personal conversation with your kid on the way to school, cry your eyes out over a break-up, or drive places you might not want the world to know about. But that perception no longer matches reality. All new cars today are privacy nightmares on wheels that collect huge amounts of personal information."[…] (source)
Not sure if this was the one I was thinking about. There was also this revelation made by the German CCC (Chaos computer club, pretty famous) about Volkswagen and some leaked GPS data. Here is an English article about it. (There is also the German CCC video, but the English doesn’t sound very good. It includes an interesting part where they show examples of how bad this GPS leak actually is. E.g. finding the cars of catering companies for important people.)
Criminals or spies could potentially use such data to create a detailed movement profile of the car owners. For foreign intelligence agencies, for example, it may be of interest to see whose cars are parked daily between 8 a.m. and 5 p.m. near buildings belonging to the Bundesnachrichtendienst, Germany’s foreign intelligence service. Or those which are driven regularly to the U.S. Air Force base in Ramstein. The Cariad data provided such information.
Btw. Any person who in the year 2026 response to privacy concerns with “I have nothing to hide” is a certified moron and shouldn’t be trusted with anything. They also have so little imagination that it should make everyone sad.
break that shit with hammers
And this is why I have 2 cars from the 80’s that I refuse to give up. They’re nearly 100% mechanical, carburated and with almost no necessary fuzes to run the two.
I have a BYD Han, and the camera has a sliding cover, which has never been opened. Its crazy that you can’t cover it without the car complaining.
It IS a cool feature but the privacy concerns kinda override any positivity I might have toward it. If it was completely offline with available source code, I’d be on board.
Destroy the ccd with a high powered laser pointer
I’d love to buy an electric car, but I want one with no electronics, if that makes sense. Electric power train, but no screens, “driver aids” or other nonsense
You want the Slate then
The Bezos-mobile
Bezos has done a lot of horrible things, but making a $20k electric truck is not one of them.
I avoid shopping on Amazon unless absolutely necessary, maybe 2-3 times in the last ten years. I think his financial existence is an abomination. But if his truck company is the only manufacturer offering a $20k base vehicle then people have good reason to hand him money. Hopefully undercutting every other manufacturer by $10k+ will result in there being more cheap cars, and alternatives within that price range
don’t worry, this is “casting the net” stage. The enshitification comes later.
I’ll believe it’s not $40k when they actually sell them.
It’s now “under $30k” since the tax break was nixed by Trump.
Maybe they’ll be cheaper but a swarm of scalpers will pocket the difference 🫠 maybe they’ll all get bought out as some sort of sacrificial lamb for AI to eat or something. Nothing good actually happens anymore, lol
Was it ever actually confirmed that Bezos was a prominent investor in that startup?
That and it used older, less safe battery tech.
Would love it if they were making a sedan or a subcompact. Not everyone needs or wants a truck.
Already out of production, but the original fiat 500e is very much one of these barebones electric vehicles. I love mine
They are going to be required to have the spyware cameras in 2027 as well. It’s federal law in the U.S. unfortunately. Hopefully there will be some published guides on tampering with and disabling them though.
Icepick or, less permanently, spray paint I suppose
Are you saying to use those tools on the car or the people forcing these fascist laws? Either way I’m for it.
I actually want a 90s Civic hatchback with an EV swap
Yes! I just heard of this recently. I hope it catches on.
Not sure that it’ll be available this side of the Atlantic that soon, but it does seem pretty interesting
No radio ability to connect to cell towers or WiFi would be nice. I think there’s a brand doing this, but I forgot to read that article I saw about it just a day or two ago.
Edit: here it is: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/06/slate-says-its-electric-pickup-will-never-track-you/
That’s an Amazon owned company, their EVs won’t track you because they are already getting that data from your phones.
Not my phone.
Yep, I’ll never buy electric, becuase we aren’t allowed to have an analog one.
ELECTRIC IS SO FUCKING SIMPLE. motor. Battery. Voltage regulator. Gearbox. Thats it. That is all it fucking needs. But we can’t have that.
I think things need to start happening at dealerships. All those new cars just sitting outside unprotected. Hmm. Sure hope nothing happens to them. Do what it takes until we get what we want.
Thats it. That is all it fucking needs. But we can’t have that.
I share your pain.
I want an elec car. That is, if I could ahve one without spyware. Which I cannot, because enshittification.
Combustion cars are problematic in so many ways. But an older one is the only way I can avoid surveilance on wheels.
Think about what the mfg can glean from your car GPS! Or what they can infer and sell. You can figure some real intimate things about ppl that way. Give me your car GPS info. I will tell you where your kids go to school. I will tell you your economic class. Whether you just got cancer, b/c all the sudden your car is going to an oncologist office a lot. Whether you went to an abortion clinic last month. Whether you’re having an affair with a co-worker. It’s almost endless.
I’ve read claims that some car co’s now make more money from your data than from selling you the entire ass car.
This should scare the shit out of everybody. But it does not seem to.
What is scary is how many lemmings don’t realize all that data is tracked on your phones. So driving some 30 year old shit box doesn’t prevent anything.
Yeah, and even more, all the data that’s tracked by the car FROM your phone when you pair the phone and the car. Modern cars will scrape contacts, pictures, call logs, messages, locations, anything they can get off phones, and send it back to the car co as part of their profit-from-your-data ecosystem.
Why are people convinced this is just in EVs? All new vehicles will have this, even brodozers.
I know, and it sucks.
Its becuase the old evs that didnt have this have awful range and generally suck. New evs would be god, but all new cars have this shit so I will never buy one.
You can probably do an hybrid conversion of a popular ICE vehicle.
The newest kits replace the transmission and adds a battery in the trunk. The engine is then converted to run at a fixed RPM for max efficiency. You can also plug them in to charge at home and on short trips they never even start the engine.
Aside form the lost Trunk space, there are very few downsides.
There really should be more investment in this area so it becomes available dor mor cars.
Any examples of such kits or estimates of the cost?
5k to 8k depending on vehicle. Nothing mass manufactured yet. A lot of those products in the developing world. Lots of full electric conversion kits as well, but range is usually short to keep cost and size low.
Thanks!
That’s very much my thinking, the kits have come down in price a huge amount recently, so it’s almost achievable now
I like the electronics, I just want anything that connects to the internet to be disabled. I’m close to needing to buy a new car, I plan on specifying at the dealership if they will stop me from disconnecting the GPS and other connections.
I have a 2023 chevy bolt and I just pulled the fuse for all that stuff. It doesn’t really disable anything important. If you still want navigation or location-based charging, you can remove the onstar module behind the screen without issue, and the video tutorial made it look pretty damned easy to DIY. That disables all the spyware/internet stuff but leaves everything else working. I’ll probably do it eventually, for location-based charging and nothing else, but its very low priority at the moment, cuz I hardly ever go anywhere that can use the full level 1 12amp pull (my friends and family aren’t confident their wiring can handle it, which is totally fair, I don’t use 12amp at home for the same reason, and I’m getting a new outlet installed that will make it a level 2 charger anyway)
It also has physical buttons for all the important stuff. That and being able to disable the spyware were my two main criteria, with cargo space as a close third (used to have a civic coupe, loved the size, but useless for moving stuff)
This will always be a game of cat and mouse, but I know that for example 3rd gen tacomas have a module that does all the talking (has the SIM card). You can pull a fuse and it kills it, but you lose your Bluetooth microphone also if you connect your phone and want to make calls - however it’s just a power passthrough so it’s really easy to splice a bypass cable that gives power back to the microphone in the cab.
There’s other stuff you can do, like disconnecting the antennas but supposedly if there’s a good enough cell signal the traces on the PCB will still transmit, I dunno.
Either way, there’s ways to get around a lot of the invasive stuff in modern vehicles but it gets harder every year.
Assuming you live in Europe, check out the citroen ec3. Base trim doesn’t even have infotainment and is affordable as hell. Still a great car to drive and very practical.
buy an old car and convert it. It aint gonna be cheap but probably cheaper than a new EV.
Converting an ICE car to an electric is insanely expensive. Far more expensive than buying a new electric car, even without factoring in the cost of buying the old car
where did you read that?
Look up the cost of conversion, then double that. It is very expensive to convert and then you get a car no one will touch for repairs. EV conversion companies are quite scammy.
Renault has some models with almost no gimmicks, only a typical navigation system, for example the Kangoo at least our older model, no idea if that changed)
YES! If you don’t need much range, maybe look the Renault Zoe from 2012. As its older it doesn’t seem to have that much tech in it.
Be very much aware that these old Renault Zoe use chademo for fast charging, a connector that literally isn’t used anywhere anymore so you’re relegated to AC charging. Oh, and a funny little quirk with them; they cannot charge with less that 6KW AC because of how they use the motor inverter. sometimes with public AC chargers this is an issue due to load distribution between multiple chargers.
Oh, I just thought, that it just doesn’t do “fast charging”. Thank you for the heads-up!
Backup cameras are mandatory for a long time.
little by little they encroach… I got a car with a back up camera but no cell connection
I’ve fitted one into my old pickup, but again not worth the amount of complication that they generally come with, eg a massive screen in the dash and the canbus nonsense to go with it. I’d rather not have the level of canbus integration of modern cars, where a locking module or whatever failing can stop the whole car working
