![Trans Science Removed From [email protected]](https://quokk.au/static/media/posts/ZT/ee/ZTeeVjUwLUhkZnL.jpeg){kind=link}
For a community that bills itself as
“General discussions about “science” itself
Be sure to also check out these other Fediverse science communities:”
And is full of news articles explaining science, having a biologist explain the science of sex biology is not a right fight for a general science community.
My main account used to be on mander, and politics is kinda a general but subtle problem on mander. (I eventually decided not to have a “main” account at all after I realized how much creepy surveillance is on the internet – little to do with mander’s politics.)
Sal tries to prevent the political circus from taking over the instance, but there’s a tension because the political circus is increasingly escaping containment and actually effecting people’s lives. While I’m not exactly sure what Sal was thinking with this particular incident, I think it’s hard to disagree that LGBT has become a part of the political circus and culture war.
Like, let’s just lay it out at a very high level: LGBT people, like everyone, are weird. Unlike most other weirdness they’re organized and vocal about their weirdness because of a long history of very real persecution. The LGBT community works very hard to “build allies” (make disliking their weirdness socially taboo) because that protects them from further persecution. This is wise in a sense: It’s a peaceful mechanism of self defense. The issue is as polarization increases people can become confused about which side is the aggressor – even if they know overall the LGBT were persecuted, they may view that has historical, or they may think the response is disproportionate, or some other similar view. This frustrates a lot of LGBT people who have personally experienced these persecutions because they know it’s not over, LGBT won’t be a non-issue anytime in the foreseeable future, and are rather fond of their communities. That said, I think the LGBT community knows it’s become a political element. Debatable whether they’re political pawns being used to seize power or a political faction in their own right.
I can’t tell you whether Sal made the right call or not. I don’t know where people should draw the line for apart of politics or not apart of politics, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want to step away from the political circus. Further, dbzer0 certainly doesn’t have much room to criticize other instances who choose to moderate their communities, even if you don’t fully agree on where to draw the line.
I’d advocate giving @[email protected] some grace with these judgements. They’re hard to make, and if nothing else @[email protected] is very clearly a very political account who probably shouldn’t be posting on mander in the first place.
I am not a “political account”, I am a trans person trying to raise awareness of the challenges and few successes we are having in being able to exist.
Just as a I post news which can often be political, I also post movies, science, sports, and other content as I find it.
People no longer understand the difference between humanity and politics
Well, if you don’t see how that aspect of yourself could be seen as political, I can see why you don’t think you’re political, but you’re clearly very passionate about a topic that most other people recognize as somewhat political. There’s nothing wrong with that in itself, but I think you can see a conflict like this was fairly likely if you’re regularly posting indiscriminately with no little knowledge of the instances or communities you’re posting in. It’s not the end of the world nor is it an attack on you or your passions. You’ll either learn to self moderate or choose different communities.
Now, if you don’t mind I’m gonna step away from this conversation before an over eager mod/admin bans my ass.
I posted a highly scientific article written by a scientist in a science community.
Let us hope they do, maybe you will learn to self moderate in the future.
Whelp. Idk how to respond in a way that doesn’t provoke more conflict over things I don’t think we should be fighting over.
So I’m disengaging.
The two genders, political and straight. Brilliant illustration of how that translates to bias.
I apologize if it came across that way, but that wasn’t my intent.
You can’t even have a conversation with a trans person because you might say something that gets you banned. If that’s really the case you should just come out and say it so the powers that be can “self moderate” your probably transphobic ass out of here. Or maybe you could “choose different” communities because it would be a blessing to never see BillyGruf talking about trans people ever again
Well, if you don’t see how that aspect of yourself could be seen as transphobic, I can see why you don’t think you’re transphobic, but you’re clearly very passionate about a topic that most other people recognize as transphobia. There’s nothing wrong with that in itself, but I think you can see a conflict like this was fairly likely if you’re regularly posting indiscriminately with no little knowledge of the communities you’re talking about. It’s not the end of the world nor is it an attack on you or your passions. You’ll either learn to self moderate or choose different communities.
Now, if you don’t mind I’m gonna step away from this conversation because you are a waste of time
Or maybe because a bunch of mindless tribal assholes, you, are gonna jump down my throat and shove words in my mouth.
I’m asshole-phobic. I admit it. People like you. Yeah, fuck them.
Nice use the username in case I delete the comments where you misrepresent my views that way you ruin the account. I can’t see how completely eliminating the incentive to disengage could possibly result in more conflict.
I couldn’t give a fuck less about trans people. Actually, I could. I’m generally on the live and let live, but despite how much of complete fucking bastards you’ve all been in the responses I actually do still have to argue in favor of defending them from stupid ass political bullshit. Right at this particular moment, dealing with you and the other people here, I really don’t want to believe that they should be defended, but unfortunately for my current mood - I do actually believe trans people should be left alone and treated like any other person. Unless I suppose they’re being assholes on the internet, then they should be told off as assholes on the internet.
prick.
Right back at ya. Sayonara transphobic shit.
The way you use LGBT is uncanny, feels half way to a slur the same way Rush Limbaugh would say “Democrat party”. Try calling us LGBT people because whatever the fuck you are saying feels off, very wrong. Like you have a lot to say about LGBT people but you can’t even address us correctly
Or come correctly at all for that matter
You should just stop. Everything you are saying ja borderline offensive. Maybe you didn’t mean any offense but you need to spend more time with actual queer people before you write five paragraph essays about what we deal with because you clearly don’t have a clue
You can straight up get fucked for this take. Trans people bear no responsibility or accountability for the hate and political persecution we are subjected to. Our lives and information about us isn’t political. We do not need to hide or censor information about trans people just because a bunch of childish bullies are making a scene about it.
Your five paragraph screed of benevolent transphobia is infinitely more political than the post that was removed on mander.xyz. You got vibes where you pretend to be a supporter of the LGBT community but then always find ways to take transphobic positions for allegedly not transphobic reasons. I’m sure it’s just that you don’t like politics, or incivility, or things that are disruptive. It just so happens queer lives have been made political by our adversaries, the bullying we are subjected to is disruptive, and we can be incredibly rude when we get mad about all of this, so you’ll always side against us.
Your comment was so long tripping over itself with squirrely qualifying language but you basically said: “Tr***ies are weird and controversial, and need to chill out and hide themselves my convenience. For me the most frustrating thing about the persecution and harrasment they face is how it could potentially disrupt my Internet communities. And these weird MFers know they are political too”
Id like to think you are a misguided ally who needs to shut up and listen the way you put “build allies” in quotes really does not leave a good taste in my nouth
Like wtf that’s a weird and uncanny way to say it
Oh yeah now we’re on to straight up unfiltered transphobia where any trans person who doesn’t try to hide their identity is political. And politcal is bad and trans is political so we should ban trans people posting trans sciencr from the science community. But it’s not because trans people are banned, just politics wink wink
Like you can 100% get fucked if you think a trans person posting about trans issues is political
What the fuck are you even on about? You’re offended I can’t tell if it’s a noun or an adjective? Fucking seriously?
Right, they’re special snowflakes who have to be treated like little saints with sole monolithic trait of gayness, rather than normal weirdos with their own interests. Why would they be like everyone else? Transphobic! Fuck off.
We have no agency and bare no responsibility! Fuck anyone who acknowledges our agency in our own live and how our decisions might have bettered our lives. Now in fairness you did say no responsibility for the hate and persecution, and I actually agree with that (I still think you’re an asshole), but I also didn’t say you were responsible. In fact I was rather explicit about the LGBT community not being initial aggressors, so this attack to be comes off more as you complaining that I acknowledged that the LGBT community can play politics (and play them rather well based off the aggression in this comment section). Wild thing to complain about, but you’re an asshole so why would you complain about something reasonable.
Haha, oh you were serious? Let me laugh harder: hahahahaha. You’re community literally chose the most eye catching flag imaginable and has literal parades to get attention and build support. We’re not political, ha ha ha. As if.
I guess you can’t see how classifying someone posting only about trans people as political (not even as a criticism) is different than telling people to avoid ever posting about trans people?
I advocated, but I didn’t do it in the right way or without nuance, so fuck me. You don’t need allies like that.
No, I’m still on your side. Well, not you specifically. You’re an asshole who’s effectively burning my account. Fuck you. But trans folks more generally are fine, and should be treated like anyone else.
Transies are just as weird as anyone else. The ones around here definitely need to chill the fuck out, and a lot of the internet ones maybe need to have multiple nuanced interests that don’t revolve around one topic. The most frustrating thing about the persecution and harassment they currently face is a lack of broader perspective for both wider society and history by their critics in the tamer portion of society – suburban republicans who see them being loud and political thinking “how dare they push their views on me, I’ve never seen them persecuted, there’s no reason for this” rather than understanding the historical context and persistent persecution in other contexts that they still face.
God, I want to tell you off because I really don’t like you, but also I have to make the arguments you should be making because I’m largely on your side. Seriously, fuck you. I honestly want to support trans people by explaining this shit to people from background who don’t see it, but they’re gonna see this argument and think well this guy supports them and they’re still assholes. Real productive. I’m sure this will convince everyone.
I’d like to think you’ve just never talked to anyone who wasn’t constantly surrounded by radical gay space tankies, but given the current state of the world that’s a bit hard to believe and it seems far more likely that you’re just an ass.
Right why try to frame thing in multiple ways? that’ll never build allies. Speak in your own terms and never try to appeal to perspectives who might not have experience with our community.
Honestly, I hate to admit it but this is probably your best criticism of me. I was speaking the way I speak to normal people in my community who are wary of trans people, but my audience was gay space tankies who clearly took offense. You’re still an asshole.
I think I already mentioned there’s a difference between an account that exclusively posts about trans stuff and an account that sometimes post about trans stuff – one is clearly political, and it’s ridiculous to pretend otherwise. Did I say it was bad to be political? I do think it’s bad to be political, but I generally reserve that view with LGBT people since they have legitimate reasons to be political – I’m pretty sure I pointed out those reasons.
Honestly the bigger reason you shouldn’t post trans arguments in science communities is because it kinda undermines the arguments. Trans rights should be supported because they’re people, not because “gender is a spectrum”. There’s actually a decent amount of debate that can be had about the underlying definition of “gender” that ultimately just doesn’t fucking matter. Like, you could argue that gendered pheno-morphisms are the core of gender and since those are a spectrum, gender is a spectrum, thus trans people are “natural”. I think that’s bad argument to make. Worker bees and queen bees are radically different phenomorphs for female bees, so why would phenomorphisms define gender? It seems pretty obvious that the genotype defines gender. Some people would argue that a genotype phenotype mismatch is unnatural, so trans people are bad, but personally I think that’s shit argument because polio is natural so nature is a bit shit - who cares what’s natural? Trans people are people, so they should be treated with the basic dignity and respect that all people deserve. Unless they’re asshole to me on the internet, then fuck em.
Ignore what your ears and eyes and common sense tell you. Trans people posting soley about being trans it totally normal and well adjusted behavior. Honestly, I don’t see why it being political matters. Aside from the tribalism that is almost certainly not good for your mental health (that’s the not normal or well adjusted part the tribalism not the trans, I know you were gonna try to put words in my mouth), politics is kinda a thing and the LGBT community is doing politics in one of the more sensible ways to do politics, so it’s not really a criticism to say it’s political.
I mean you posting about me being transphobic for not siding with you hard enough is a shit way of doing politics, and there’s definitely the temptation to turn against your whole group because one of you was mean to me on the internet, but I’m not a complete child – of course I’m not gonna be a complete adult about it either: Fuck you.
of course its part of the culture war and you obviously dont know what you talking about if you think it makes talking about it negative at all unless you are on one of the spectrums advocating against it. also not elaborating on why to label it part of “political circus”?
current status quo in most places trans are being targeted, whats confusing about who is the aggressor part? its more taboo to say you are pro-trans rights in most places than not
due to politicians dangling over in their front how they will control over and what they should a have a right of, its not something it “became” you make it sound like its something recent which you clearly would be ignoring past history
which is why other people are asking for an official statement coming from Sal, but your whole comment goes around trying to defend what happened based on your definition of “political circus” not established within your comment other than throwing it over at the whole LGBT movement or just trying to avoid using the word trans while being shy to say you think its fair for a minority not affecting others lives other than misinformation being spewed on of them and hateful targetting
mask slipping off? its fine if you admit you didnt notice the bias you are holding and try to learn from it but breaking down your comment makes it clear your intention whether on purpose or not
ends with calling out the person who is reporting possible power trip for clarity and to see whats going on as in the wrong here simply for being trans, a lot of labels to throw at trans people and not use the word a single time and end your comment with targetting one and labeling them political just for being themselves, the article posted in question was written by actual scientisfs and gone through using the scientific method, it seems perfectly fit for the community it was posted on
Man, this response sucks. I put so much effort into trying to politely explain why this situation arose while making it clear that I’m cool with LGBT people, and I still get this demonization for not mindlessly siding with one side. Yeah, I did call out the person who posted in violation of a communities rules & guidelines then came running to dbzer0 to stir up drama – that’s wildly inappropriate behavior.
Whatever, y’all can stay apart of your tribe and blind yourself to any other. I don’t think it’s wise, but you’re clearly not gonna listen to me.
It’s because you thoughtfully sided with transphobia. And to make matters worse you are so out of touch that you think you are being polite when you are actually coming off like a condescending bigot.
And no one reading what you wrote is going to think you are wise. That’s why they are not going to listen to you