For a community that bills itself as
“General discussions about “science” itself
Be sure to also check out these other Fediverse science communities:”
And is full of news articles explaining science, having a biologist explain the science of sex biology is not a right fight for a general science community.
You are right, I did not make the right call on this one.
I have been neglecting the instance very aggressively due to being busy this summer. I was scanning through the report backlog and this post was reported for ‘transphobia’. I skimmed through, clicked on a whitehouse link that said “RESTORING BIOLOGICAL TRUTH TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT” in big letters, and instead of doing more due-diligence I applied a rule that I rarely apply as the discriminant to process it quickly. The rule being, as you mentioned, that the ‘Science’ community is meant to be for discussing science itself. It is a meta-community.
In practice, I stopped enforcing this rule for the most part, which means that in this case it was an excuse I used to process the report quickly without needing to validate whether I personally think it is ‘transphobia’ or not.
Sorry
Some things:
- I make mistakes, if you send me message I will usually correct it or at least explain my reasons.
- When I get reports such as ‘transphobia’ or ‘racism’, I automatically bias heavily my decision towards the reporter because I can easily miss something in my personal analysis.
- Very often the explanation between ‘why was A removed and B allowed to stay’ is that A was reported and B was not.
- My stated intention is to minimize politics and polarizing content, but this has proven difficult to achieve in practice
I’m glad it was a mistake and that you corrected it. Politics is a tricky subject and nebulously saying no politics isn’t a good strategy because everything is political.Politics has an influence on everything in life both good and bad. So I think a better goal would be to target the political behaviors that hurt people. The ones that are anti-science by nature. Just my opinion.
I’m glad to hear it was a simple mistake.
If I could make a suggestion restoring the post, and banning users such as ‘[email protected]’ who had commented, an account with prior history of multiple actual transphobic comments in their history, might be a good start to move forward.
Also if you don’t mind, could you please DM me with the information for who made the ‘transphobia’ report? I’ve noticed some other issues with false reports on some of @[email protected]’s posts and I would like to further keep an eye on what accounts are doing this to Quokk.au’s users as it may be part of more targeted harassment.
Oh.
I checked the reports, and what I see is a sequence of 6 reports reporting hoohoohoot’s comments. I do not have a vivid memory of the moment as I was just processing the back-log, but what must have happened is that In haste I interpreted this as 6 independent reports of the post, not noticing that the reports were of the comments, and so when I opened the post I was operating on what I mistakenly thought was a very high signal. I still did not want to claim ‘transphobia’ in my reason without verifying that, so, as I explained, I used the loophole as an excuse.
Usually, if this would really have been 6 independent reports of the same post, removing it would have been very likely the correct move. This contributed to why I was careless.
Here are 4 of them, I removed the names because these are not false reports:
That’s fair, thanks for clearing that up :)
I don’t know you by reputation or anything about your personal beliefs which have been hinted at here. I am only judging you on this apology and reasonable explanation.
Well done, Salamander.
As the great 21st century philosopher, moralist, and tiger cub, Daniel Tiger, says: “It’s okay to make mistakes. Try to fix them and learn from them too!”
Sorry
I appreciate you responding to this and explaining what happened. Being busy is understandable, is adding mods with more time something you’re open to? I can’t volunteer my own time, but someone might be able to step up.
Yes, of course! Moderators are gold. I need to make a better effort at recruiting.
[Removing my comment because it appears to be an innocent mistake]
Politics first and foremost concerns itself with the manner in which people are organized. Hence terms like “family politics,” “office politics,” “church politics,” and so on. Every human endeavor worth pursuing requires an organization comprised of people, which means every human endeavor worth pursuing is political in nature.
Even science is political, and science can be easily shown to be political. Who funds the research? Who delegates which field gets higher priority in funds and equipment? How are research teams organized? How are material distributed?
I’m just so exhausted. We can’t seem to talk about gender or sex without the default thought process going “politics” or “troll”. Trans existence is taboo.
Put this on the Mander sidebar
People who want to avoid talking about trans people or orientation because it’s “political” are revealing where they really stand in regards to political alignment.
Anything to do with a living being’s rights become “political” because of who uses it as an answer to attempt to shut down discourse and shape it around their masked bigotry
Also, if you say trans rights are political in attempt to push it out the realm of acceptable discussion, that is an offensive action, expect people like me to treat it as an act of war because it is.
:l
Not a good look.
Patiently awaiting Sal’s response.
Prepared to be disappointed.I don’t predict @[email protected] responding to this unless he’s willing to acknowledge it as a mistake. I think he knows that his position would make him very unpopular in the fediverse, where most places emphasize trans rights and visibility. It’s especially disappointing because he chose to remove real science in favor of his own political bias.
If this isn’t resolved I will no longer post science articles on Mander.
Eewww nope what a creepy choice I don’t like it at all, I hope this was a misunderstanding.
edit ok who wants to make a new science focused instance?
@[email protected] Could we get an explanation on this. It seems unfair to have a good scientific article removed from the Science instance seemingly without good reason.
I think this probably covers the explanation: https://mander.xyz/comment/27596923
The goal when creating this instance was to a place to discuss about scientific discoveries, post pictures of nature, and have a set of communities for this while avoiding polarizing content. If someone wants to discuss politics they can click on ‘All’ and go right to it. The scope is explicitly anti-politics because I do not want to moderate a politically charged or polarizing environment, and I know that many people with interests like mine will also appreciate such a space existing because they see enough pictures of Donald Trump and polarizing discussions elsewhere.
it seems like @[email protected] thinks trans people are too polarizing for his instance. his comments come across as a very “don’t disturb the status quo” kind of liberal. or as I like to call them, a Nazi collaborator. because if you aren’t fighting the fascists in some way, then you’re actively helping them.
Agreed, by choosing to decide arbitrarily that trans people are political and shouldn’t be discussed @[email protected] is helping to further the fascist agenda against trans people. Lots of people don’t know this but the number one way media alienates trans people isn’t by making offensive jokes about us, or invalidating us directly, but by just erasing our existence.
That’s what gamergate and not wanting queer people in video games and movies is about. They want us to stop existing in the minds of public people.
@[email protected] You have an interesting account, not at all suspicious in any way…
So is climate change political? What about vaccines or the shape of the earth?
yes yes and yes.
it’s why trying to ban topics on the basis of being “political” is actually insane. we live in a world where the basic concepts of facts and shared reality are increasingly polarized and politicized. Science as a concept has become political.
Climate change should not be political. But it unfortunately is.
“Stop making it political!”
- People with the worst politics that don’t want to be outed.
The scope is explicitly anti-politics
real “i don’t do politics, politics do you” energy here
I look forward to them applying this consistently and banning all biology articles that mention anything relating to sexual reproduction and development. No? Just trans people? Weeeeird… Huh…
Probably articles about gayness and sexual orientation in general as well. It seems like something he would also have a problem with for being “political”.
If I disagree with it or don’t like it, it’s political.
Maybe I should do it. I should become the first person to make a truly unbiased, “no politics allowed” community. Posting is banned. It will just be a blank page. I look forward to their attentive and continuing viewership.
You could actually do this as a bit because I believe that Lemmy lets you create a community where only the mod(s) can create new posts. You could take this bit pretty far if you wanted to.
I don’t want to speak on behalf of Sal, but I would like to point out that I have seen a lot of posts on similar topics on Mander.xyz. I think it’s worth waiting for Sal to comment on this before people get the pitchforks out.
I will also point out this from the sidebar of mander.xyz:
Please keep politics to a minimum. When science is the focus, intersection with politics may be tolerated as long as the discussion is constructive and science remains the focus. As a general rule, political content posted directly to the instance’s local communities is discouraged and may be removed. You can of course engage in political discussions in non-local communities.
This is something that I talked to Sal about before creating [email protected], and I was satisfied with the answer at the time. Everything intersects politics at some level, and those intersections are more prominent in some topics. Mander.xyz is an academic focussed instance, and it tries to carve out a space for constructive conversation the communities that are hosted on it. Sometimes it’s not the topic that is the problem, but the quality of the specific article that is being posted.
Also, that particular community is supposed to be about ‘General discussions about “science” itself’, and if you look at the very old posts, they were meta discussions about the scientific method and scientific research. It seems to have taken a new life over the years though.
It’s also possible that the comment section was the concern, and maybe it was easier to remove the post instead of carefully going through all the comments. I think Sal has earned a chance at speaking about this before the pitchforks.
Some people’s definition of “politics” is bewildering nonsense. Reality is not a team sport. Things that conservatives screech about can still be simple and true and kind of important to be state plainly, firmly, and often. Politely censoring discussion of whatever they’re loudly wrong about is not avoiding the problem - it’s running interference on their behalf.
I saw that get removed because I tried to comment. I’m befuddled about it, too.
i think it was removed because the comments got way too heated. shoild prabably have been locked instead. doesn’t explain the given reason though.
deleted by creator
Yeah that’s not a good reason to remove posts. Really hope we get an explanation.
Yeah. Feels like the right move would be to lock the post and remove the offending comments, rather than remove the whole post. The post itself is perfectly in bounds for the community. I also hope there’s a good explanation, but I’m prepared to be let down.
Meh. If you’re unable to properly moderate the comment section, you end up giving the bigots a platform, and vulnerable people are unsafe. That’s how hate speech proliferates on the internet.
There’s a good reason to lock certain topics, removing them less so, although it does stop bigots whining about not being able to share their stunning insights on those certain topics.
It’s the whole reason places like beehaw or gay clubs exist.
If bad comments are enough to remove a post, then bad actors can remove any post by spamming it with bad comments.
Yep. Which is why I said above the mod was overreacting and should simply have locked down comments if it was getting bad and/or they felt unable to deal with the comment section.
In the right contexts it can be a good reason. In this case I can imagine reports on the comments were flying left and right, despite the article itself having no issues. That might have provoked a removal, habitually to avoid needing to go into the comments section with a surgical needle to remove the transphobia, bigotry, off-topic comments and flame-baiting.
The post seems to have been re-upped by someone else, no comments, so I think (and you don’t have to agree with me for any of this) there’s no issue with the article itself. I’ll be charitable and put the removal modlog comment as reference to the contained comments getting way too political for the site, rather than the article.
I am gonna need more context
OP had the article posted in another community. I also cross-posted it to several trans and intersex communities myself. You can read it here.
And that news source is entirely written by scientists with relevant experience. If that’s not suitable for a science community that allows something other than scientific papers, I don’t know what would be
Thanks, this doesn’t make the mod in question look any better.
It’s there now. Or maybe a different science instance?
It’s up, but from a different user. So the original takedown is still in effect
Ah, ok. I was confused and thought it was still up.
as far as i can tell it’s removed from [email protected] and remains present on [email protected]
Damn, stupid, commie, tankies censoring everything!! This is why we need to kick them off the fediverse!
rereads comment
oh
Well my point still stands!
My main account used to be on mander, and politics is kinda a general but subtle problem on mander. (I eventually decided not to have a “main” account at all after I realized how much creepy surveillance is on the internet – little to do with mander’s politics.)
Sal tries to prevent the political circus from taking over the instance, but there’s a tension because the political circus is increasingly escaping containment and actually effecting people’s lives. While I’m not exactly sure what Sal was thinking with this particular incident, I think it’s hard to disagree that LGBT has become a part of the political circus and culture war.
Like, let’s just lay it out at a very high level: LGBT people, like everyone, are weird. Unlike most other weirdness they’re organized and vocal about their weirdness because of a long history of very real persecution. The LGBT community works very hard to “build allies” (make disliking their weirdness socially taboo) because that protects them from further persecution. This is wise in a sense: It’s a peaceful mechanism of self defense. The issue is as polarization increases people can become confused about which side is the aggressor – even if they know overall the LGBT were persecuted, they may view that has historical, or they may think the response is disproportionate, or some other similar view. This frustrates a lot of LGBT people who have personally experienced these persecutions because they know it’s not over, LGBT won’t be a non-issue anytime in the foreseeable future, and are rather fond of their communities. That said, I think the LGBT community knows it’s become a political element. Debatable whether they’re political pawns being used to seize power or a political faction in their own right.
I can’t tell you whether Sal made the right call or not. I don’t know where people should draw the line for apart of politics or not apart of politics, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want to step away from the political circus. Further, dbzer0 certainly doesn’t have much room to criticize other instances who choose to moderate their communities, even if you don’t fully agree on where to draw the line.
I’d advocate giving @[email protected] some grace with these judgements. They’re hard to make, and if nothing else @[email protected] is very clearly a very political account who probably shouldn’t be posting on mander in the first place.
The way you use LGBT is uncanny, feels half way to a slur the same way Rush Limbaugh would say “Democrat party”. Try calling us LGBT people because whatever the fuck you are saying feels off, very wrong. Like you have a lot to say about LGBT people but you can’t even address us correctly
Or come correctly at all for that matter
Like, let’s just lay it out at a very high level: LGBT people, like everyone, are weird. Unlike most other weirdness they’re organized and vocal about their weirdness
You should just stop. Everything you are saying ja borderline offensive. Maybe you didn’t mean any offense but you need to spend more time with actual queer people before you write five paragraph essays about what we deal with because you clearly don’t have a clue
That said, I think the LGBT community knows it’s become a political element. Debatable whether they’re political pawns being used to seize power or a political faction in their own right.
You can straight up get fucked for this take. Trans people bear no responsibility or accountability for the hate and political persecution we are subjected to. Our lives and information about us isn’t political. We do not need to hide or censor information about trans people just because a bunch of childish bullies are making a scene about it.
Your five paragraph screed of benevolent transphobia is infinitely more political than the post that was removed on mander.xyz. You got vibes where you pretend to be a supporter of the LGBT community but then always find ways to take transphobic positions for allegedly not transphobic reasons. I’m sure it’s just that you don’t like politics, or incivility, or things that are disruptive. It just so happens queer lives have been made political by our adversaries, the bullying we are subjected to is disruptive, and we can be incredibly rude when we get mad about all of this, so you’ll always side against us.
Your comment was so long tripping over itself with squirrely qualifying language but you basically said: “Tr***ies are weird and controversial, and need to chill out and hide themselves my convenience. For me the most frustrating thing about the persecution and harrasment they face is how it could potentially disrupt my Internet communities. And these weird MFers know they are political too”
Id like to think you are a misguided ally who needs to shut up and listen the way you put “build allies” in quotes really does not leave a good taste in my nouth
The LGBT community works very hard to “build allies” (make disliking their weirdness socially taboo)
Like wtf that’s a weird and uncanny way to say it
if nothing else @[email protected] is very clearly a very political account who probably shouldn’t be posting on mander in the first place.
Oh yeah now we’re on to straight up unfiltered transphobia where any trans person who doesn’t try to hide their identity is political. And politcal is bad and trans is political so we should ban trans people posting trans sciencr from the science community. But it’s not because trans people are banned, just politics wink wink
Like you can 100% get fucked if you think a trans person posting about trans issues is political
The way you use LGBT is uncanny, feels half way to a slur the same way Rush Limbaugh would say “Democrat party”. Try calling us LGBT people because whatever the fuck you are saying feels off, very wrong. Like you have a lot to say about LGBT people but you can’t even address us correctly
What the fuck are you even on about? You’re offended I can’t tell if it’s a noun or an adjective? Fucking seriously?
Like, let’s just lay it out at a very high level: LGBT people, like everyone, are weird. Unlike most other weirdness they’re organized and vocal about their weirdness
You should just stop. Everything you are saying ja borderline offensive. Maybe you didn’t mean any offense but you need to spend more time with actual queer people before you write five paragraph essays about what we deal with because you clearly don’t have a clue
Right, they’re special snowflakes who have to be treated like little saints with sole monolithic trait of gayness, rather than normal weirdos with their own interests. Why would they be like everyone else? Transphobic! Fuck off.
You can straight up get fucked for this take. Trans people bear no responsibility or accountability for the hate and political persecution we are subjected to.
We have no agency and bare no responsibility! Fuck anyone who acknowledges our agency in our own live and how our decisions might have bettered our lives. Now in fairness you did say no responsibility for the hate and persecution, and I actually agree with that (I still think you’re an asshole), but I also didn’t say you were responsible. In fact I was rather explicit about the LGBT community not being initial aggressors, so this attack to be comes off more as you complaining that I acknowledged that the LGBT community can play politics (and play them rather well based off the aggression in this comment section). Wild thing to complain about, but you’re an asshole so why would you complain about something reasonable.
Our lives and information about us isn’t political.
Haha, oh you were serious? Let me laugh harder: hahahahaha. You’re community literally chose the most eye catching flag imaginable and has literal parades to get attention and build support. We’re not political, ha ha ha. As if.
We do not need to hide or censor information about trans people just because a bunch of childish bullies are making a scene about it.
I guess you can’t see how classifying someone posting only about trans people as political (not even as a criticism) is different than telling people to avoid ever posting about trans people?
You got vibes where you pretend to be a supporter of the LGBT community but then always find ways to take transphobic positions for allegedly not transphobic reasons.
I advocated, but I didn’t do it in the right way or without nuance, so fuck me. You don’t need allies like that.
. I’m sure it’s just that you don’t like politics, or incivility, or things that are disruptive. It just so happens queer lives have been made political by our adversaries, the bullying we are subjected to is disruptive, and we can be incredibly rude when we get mad about all of this, so you’ll always side against us.
No, I’m still on your side. Well, not you specifically. You’re an asshole who’s effectively burning my account. Fuck you. But trans folks more generally are fine, and should be treated like anyone else.
Your comment was so long tripping over itself with squirrely qualifying language but you basically said: “Tr***ies are weird and controversial, and need to chill out and hide themselves my convenience. For me the most frustrating thing about the persecution and harrasment they face is how it could potentially disrupt my Internet communities. And these weird MFers know they are political too”
Transies are just as weird as anyone else. The ones around here definitely need to chill the fuck out, and a lot of the internet ones maybe need to have multiple nuanced interests that don’t revolve around one topic. The most frustrating thing about the persecution and harassment they currently face is a lack of broader perspective for both wider society and history by their critics in the tamer portion of society – suburban republicans who see them being loud and political thinking “how dare they push their views on me, I’ve never seen them persecuted, there’s no reason for this” rather than understanding the historical context and persistent persecution in other contexts that they still face.
God, I want to tell you off because I really don’t like you, but also I have to make the arguments you should be making because I’m largely on your side. Seriously, fuck you. I honestly want to support trans people by explaining this shit to people from background who don’t see it, but they’re gonna see this argument and think well this guy supports them and they’re still assholes. Real productive. I’m sure this will convince everyone.
Id like to think you are a misguided ally who needs to shut up and listen the way you put “build allies” in quotes really does not leave a good taste in my nouth
I’d like to think you’ve just never talked to anyone who wasn’t constantly surrounded by radical gay space tankies, but given the current state of the world that’s a bit hard to believe and it seems far more likely that you’re just an ass.
The LGBT community works very hard to “build allies” (make disliking their weirdness socially taboo)
Like wtf that’s a weird and uncanny way to say it
Right why try to frame thing in multiple ways? that’ll never build allies. Speak in your own terms and never try to appeal to perspectives who might not have experience with our community.
Honestly, I hate to admit it but this is probably your best criticism of me. I was speaking the way I speak to normal people in my community who are wary of trans people, but my audience was gay space tankies who clearly took offense. You’re still an asshole.
if nothing else @[email protected] is very clearly a very political account who probably shouldn’t be posting on mander in the first place.
Oh yeah now we’re on to straight up unfiltered transphobia where any trans person who doesn’t try to hide their identity is political. And politcal is bad and trans is political so we should ban trans people posting trans sciencr from the science community. But it’s not because trans people are banned, just politics wink wink
I think I already mentioned there’s a difference between an account that exclusively posts about trans stuff and an account that sometimes post about trans stuff – one is clearly political, and it’s ridiculous to pretend otherwise. Did I say it was bad to be political? I do think it’s bad to be political, but I generally reserve that view with LGBT people since they have legitimate reasons to be political – I’m pretty sure I pointed out those reasons.
Honestly the bigger reason you shouldn’t post trans arguments in science communities is because it kinda undermines the arguments. Trans rights should be supported because they’re people, not because “gender is a spectrum”. There’s actually a decent amount of debate that can be had about the underlying definition of “gender” that ultimately just doesn’t fucking matter. Like, you could argue that gendered pheno-morphisms are the core of gender and since those are a spectrum, gender is a spectrum, thus trans people are “natural”. I think that’s bad argument to make. Worker bees and queen bees are radically different phenomorphs for female bees, so why would phenomorphisms define gender? It seems pretty obvious that the genotype defines gender. Some people would argue that a genotype phenotype mismatch is unnatural, so trans people are bad, but personally I think that’s shit argument because polio is natural so nature is a bit shit - who cares what’s natural? Trans people are people, so they should be treated with the basic dignity and respect that all people deserve. Unless they’re asshole to me on the internet, then fuck em.
Like you can 100% get fucked if you think a trans person posting about trans issues is political
Ignore what your ears and eyes and common sense tell you. Trans people posting soley about being trans it totally normal and well adjusted behavior. Honestly, I don’t see why it being political matters. Aside from the tribalism that is almost certainly not good for your mental health (that’s the not normal or well adjusted part the tribalism not the trans, I know you were gonna try to put words in my mouth), politics is kinda a thing and the LGBT community is doing politics in one of the more sensible ways to do politics, so it’s not really a criticism to say it’s political.
I mean you posting about me being transphobic for not siding with you hard enough is a shit way of doing politics, and there’s definitely the temptation to turn against your whole group because one of you was mean to me on the internet, but I’m not a complete child – of course I’m not gonna be a complete adult about it either: Fuck you.
I am not a “political account”, I am a trans person trying to raise awareness of the challenges and few successes we are having in being able to exist.
Just as a I post news which can often be political, I also post movies, science, sports, and other content as I find it.
People no longer understand the difference between humanity and politics
Well, if you don’t see how that aspect of yourself could be seen as political, I can see why you don’t think you’re political, but you’re clearly very passionate about a topic that most other people recognize as somewhat political. There’s nothing wrong with that in itself, but I think you can see a conflict like this was fairly likely if you’re regularly posting indiscriminately with no little knowledge of the instances or communities you’re posting in. It’s not the end of the world nor is it an attack on you or your passions. You’ll either learn to self moderate or choose different communities.
Now, if you don’t mind I’m gonna step away from this conversation before an over eager mod/admin bans my ass.
You can’t even have a conversation with a trans person because you might say something that gets you banned. If that’s really the case you should just come out and say it so the powers that be can “self moderate” your probably transphobic ass out of here. Or maybe you could “choose different” communities because it would be a blessing to never see BillyGruf talking about trans people ever again
Well, if you don’t see how that aspect of yourself could be seen as transphobic, I can see why you don’t think you’re transphobic, but you’re clearly very passionate about a topic that most other people recognize as transphobia. There’s nothing wrong with that in itself, but I think you can see a conflict like this was fairly likely if you’re regularly posting indiscriminately with no little knowledge of the communities you’re talking about. It’s not the end of the world nor is it an attack on you or your passions. You’ll either learn to self moderate or choose different communities.
Now, if you don’t mind I’m gonna step away from this conversation because you are a waste of time
because you might say something that gets you banned
Or maybe because a bunch of mindless tribal assholes, you, are gonna jump down my throat and shove words in my mouth.
If that’s really the case you should just come out and say it so the powers that be can “self moderate” your probably transphobic ass out of here
I’m asshole-phobic. I admit it. People like you. Yeah, fuck them.
Or maybe you could “choose different” communities because it would be a blessing to never see BillyGruf talking about trans people ever again
Nice use the username in case I delete the comments where you misrepresent my views that way you ruin the account. I can’t see how completely eliminating the incentive to disengage could possibly result in more conflict.
Well, if you don’t see how that aspect of yourself could be seen as transphobic, I can see why you don’t think you’re transphobic, but you’re clearly very passionate about a topic that most other people recognize as transphobia.
I couldn’t give a fuck less about trans people. Actually, I could. I’m generally on the live and let live, but despite how much of complete fucking bastards you’ve all been in the responses I actually do still have to argue in favor of defending them from stupid ass political bullshit. Right at this particular moment, dealing with you and the other people here, I really don’t want to believe that they should be defended, but unfortunately for my current mood - I do actually believe trans people should be left alone and treated like any other person. Unless I suppose they’re being assholes on the internet, then they should be told off as assholes on the internet.
prick.
prick.
Right back at ya. Sayonara transphobic shit.
I posted a highly scientific article written by a scientist in a science community.
Let us hope they do, maybe you will learn to self moderate in the future.
Whelp. Idk how to respond in a way that doesn’t provoke more conflict over things I don’t think we should be fighting over.
So I’m disengaging.
The two genders, political and straight. Brilliant illustration of how that translates to bias.
I apologize if it came across that way, but that wasn’t my intent.
While I’m not exactly sure what Sal was thinking with this particular incident, I think it’s hard to disagree that LGBT has become a part of the political circus and culture war.
of course its part of the culture war and you obviously dont know what you talking about if you think it makes talking about it negative at all unless you are on one of the spectrums advocating against it. also not elaborating on why to label it part of “political circus”?
The LGBT community works very hard to “build allies” (make disliking their weirdness socially taboo) because that protects them from further persecution. This is wise in a sense: It’s a peaceful mechanism of self defense. The issue is as polarization increases people can become confused about which side is the aggressor
current status quo in most places trans are being targeted, whats confusing about who is the aggressor part? its more taboo to say you are pro-trans rights in most places than not
the LGBT community knows it’s become a political element
due to politicians dangling over in their front how they will control over and what they should a have a right of, its not something it “became” you make it sound like its something recent which you clearly would be ignoring past history
I can’t tell you whether Sal made the right call or not.
which is why other people are asking for an official statement coming from Sal, but your whole comment goes around trying to defend what happened based on your definition of “political circus” not established within your comment other than throwing it over at the whole LGBT movement or just trying to avoid using the word trans while being shy to say you think its fair for a minority not affecting others lives other than misinformation being spewed on of them and hateful targetting
Debatable whether they’re political pawns being used to seize power or a political faction in their own right
mask slipping off? its fine if you admit you didnt notice the bias you are holding and try to learn from it but breaking down your comment makes it clear your intention whether on purpose or not
if nothing else @[email protected] is very clearly a very political account who probably shouldn’t be posting on mander in the first place
ends with calling out the person who is reporting possible power trip for clarity and to see whats going on as in the wrong here simply for being trans, a lot of labels to throw at trans people and not use the word a single time and end your comment with targetting one and labeling them political just for being themselves, the article posted in question was written by actual scientisfs and gone through using the scientific method, it seems perfectly fit for the community it was posted on
Man, this response sucks. I put so much effort into trying to politely explain why this situation arose while making it clear that I’m cool with LGBT people, and I still get this demonization for not mindlessly siding with one side. Yeah, I did call out the person who posted in violation of a communities rules & guidelines then came running to dbzer0 to stir up drama – that’s wildly inappropriate behavior.
Whatever, y’all can stay apart of your tribe and blind yourself to any other. I don’t think it’s wise, but you’re clearly not gonna listen to me.
I put so much effort into trying to politely explain why this situation arose while making it clear that I’m cool with LGBT people, and I still get this demonization for not mindlessly siding with one side
It’s because you thoughtfully sided with transphobia. And to make matters worse you are so out of touch that you think you are being polite when you are actually coming off like a condescending bigot.
And no one reading what you wrote is going to think you are wise. That’s why they are not going to listen to you
If I look on [email protected] it’s still there, but that might be me. This being said.
BPR. The whole gender debate has become toxic.
Most plausible scenario is that it’s not a reflection on what you posted but that the mod didn’t want to deal with the comment section, and removed it for that reason.
Or they didn’t read the article and assumed it was ‘it’s just science’ transphobia, because there are so many of them even on here. Probably should have taken a breath and read the article, which is still up on [email protected] and is genuinely interesting.
Or they didn’t want to set a precedent of allowing one article on gender/sex, only for a hundred transphobes to start whining that their ‘scientific’ articles weren’t allowed.
I mean, maybe they should have locked it, but there’s a plausible reason they didn’t want to deal with that shit and shut it down fast.
Then just ban all the transphobes
Easier said than done.
So what that is the job of moderators. Not banning transphobes because they are too lazy is a piss poor excuse
Can’t expect a volunteer mod to moderate 24/7. Plenty still slips through.
Probably best to lock threads like this, if as a mod you know you can’t moderate properly.
But as I said above, the post is still visible for me, so seems like the mod reinstated it.
The post is regarding on the science community from mander.xyz not lemmy.ml, you are checking wrong post
Its strength to show you recognize whitewashing and learn from it, doubling down on it is the opposite
Nope. Still see it on [email protected]. Might be a federation thing.
Anyway, my argument is simply that there’s a reason safe spaces exist, and that if you can’t ensure something is a safe space, it’s sometimes best to lock it down before you platform bigotry.
In any case, my initial reaction above was BPR, which includes over reactions in a charged situations. I think the whole trans thing counts as charged, thanks to all the bigots who pop out of the word work. I think the mod over-reacted, but that it’s understandable they made that mistake because the situation is charged.
e: it appears someone else posted the same article on mander.xyz. If the mod deletes that too, then it would be damning, and I’m no longer willing to give them the benefit of doubt
This is a terrible argument if at all, its basically letting bigotry shape the discourse, sure its better to wait official statement on why this happened but “didnt want to deal with comments section” isnt an argument, just plainly whitewashing behavior
Not wanting to platform bigotry is a perfectly valid argument.
As mentioned elsewhere, my initial reaction was BPR which includes over-reactions in charged situations, which the whole trans thing has become thanks to online bigots.
Mod should have locked down the comment section with an explanation why, but seems likely they overreacted. It happens.
But the post is visible for me, even on [email protected]. Maybe someone else posted it, and the mod let that one stay.
e: it appears someone else posted the same article on mander.xyz. It’ll be interesting to see if the mod deletes that too, then it would be damning.
![Trans Science Removed From [email protected]](https://quokk.au/static/media/posts/ZT/ee/ZTeeVjUwLUhkZnL.jpeg){kind=link}