• hypnicjerk@lemmy.worldEnglish
    21·
    3 hours ago

    my species is at the top of the food chain and i intend to make the most of the privilege :)

  • AlataOrange@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    123·
    8 hours ago

    Carnist here, feel free to ratio me in the comments.

    The thing that I find most annoying in these intermittent “debates” where various people with different believes make starwmen and yell past one another is the shocking disconnect between people and the food that they eat at a fundamental level.

    I am firmly of the belief that people need to be aware of what goes into the production of the food that they eat and look at the consequences of their actions directly.

    People who eat meet but divorce that dish from the animal who made it are misguided at best to delusional at worst.

    Similarly people who champion the removal of animal products but won’t look into the eyes of a combine harvester and the animal it has ran over, the displacement or slaughter of animals in the clearing of farmlands, the increase in water consumption as new areas are turned over to fast cash crop agriculture based on whatever the current trend is, the removal of byproducts from industry such as long lasting leathers of adhesive products in exchange for quick rotting fast fashion made largely of petroleum products, and the costs associated with all of that are also misguided at best to delusional at worst.

    Independence and community support are the best answer. But when so many see the people they live alongside as enemies what hope do we have of cooperation.

    So maybe instead of fighting one another over petty concerns we can come together and take a look at the system trying to keep people apart and reliant on its own monstrous excess

    • Tiresia@slrpnk.netEnglish
      51·
      3 hours ago

      Similarly people who champion the removal of animal products but won’t look into the eyes of a combine harvester and the animal it has ran over, the displacement or slaughter of animals in the clearing of farmlands, the increase in water consumption as new areas are turned over to fast cash crop agriculture based on whatever the current trend is,

      Animal products require the cultivation of more plants than vegan food. Animals need to be fed, and they burn tons of calories to stay alive.

      the removal of byproducts from industry such as long lasting leathers of adhesive products in exchange for quick rotting fast fashion made largely of petroleum products, and the costs associated with all of that are also misguided at best to delusional at worst.

      Without subsidies, it is cheaper to make long-lasting bioplastics from plant matter than to raise a cow and kill it for its skin. The fashion industry makes clothes that decay in order to sell more clothes, and the meat industry artificially lowers the price of leather.

      So maybe instead of fighting one another over petty concerns we can come together and take a look at the system trying to keep people apart and reliant on its own monstrous excess

      Agreed, you should take a look at the system and let go of your petty concerns. This will make you vegan.

  • Don't forget to stay hydrated.🍉🍉🍉🍉🍉@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    91·
    11 hours ago

    Because I am failure.
    I don’t have a kitchen, and most ready to eat food is non-vegan.
    I am currently living either with parents or at dorm.
    Parents are hoarders, so the kitchen can be considered out of service. There’s no space, and it’s far from food-safe.
    The dorm kitchen is shared between ~20 people, and I don’t do well around those, so I haven’t used it. Plus the situation with electric appliances is complicated there. I’d have to somehow haul my own fridge over there. And get it approved first, so more human contact.
    I also share a room with someone, so I just try to do least of anything over there.
    As I only tend to eat once a day, this is economically doable.

    Our uni also has a cafeteria, but I haven’t yet been there because… I haven’t yet been there. I don’t know how it works. I tried observing others, but I see the order system is done using some touchscreen terminal, the UI of which I don’t know (I was watching from further away), and I couldn’t find any precise manual online. Actually, I couldn’t find any manual online.

  • garbagebagel@lemmy.worldEnglish
    462·
    16 hours ago

    I’m allergic to everything. Mushrooms, soy/tofu, tree nuts (but not peanuts), raw fruits (and some cooked), raw veggies.

    I’m Mexican but even I can only eat so many beans in one week. I’ll stick with doin my best though.

    • seeking_perhaps@mander.xyzEnglish
      5·
      3 hours ago

      I genuinely think this is one of the few good reasons not to be fully vegan. Props to you for still doing your best despite how frustrating all those allergies must be.

    • fushuan@piefed.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      29·
      16 hours ago

      Reducing meat intake and replacing it with veggies where you can does heaps for the environment. Your best is phenomenal, if everyone did your best, I bet the industries would adapt and offer more alternatives you aren’t allergic to, so you had more choice to evolve what “your best” is.

      Sadly this is probably going to be a generational change, multi generational even, so please don’t chastise yourself for not being able to do more.

      Me for example, I try to use vegan/vegetarian ingredients where I can but I’m lazy and also eat meat every 2-3 days. The moment I learn of a new lazy healthy product that tastes good I introduce it to my diet, it’s a slow process lol.

    • FatVegan@leminal.spaceEnglish
      21·
      10 hours ago

      I used to be allergic to soy and most fruits 20 years ago. Thankfully that calmed down and went away with most things.

  • wraekscadu@vargar.orgEnglish
    304·
    16 hours ago

    To the non vegans willing to approach this with an open mind:

    I would highly recommend you to watch this.

    Ethical reasons aside, if you do care about the environment and climate change, then vegan diets have a much much lower negative environmental impact.

    If you’re smart with it, then vegan diets tend to be a lot cheaper too! Most humans are lactose intolerant. Maybe you are too. If you are, then switching to vegan milks could mean less gases, farts and bloating. It’s quite comfortable to not have all that…

    That being said, if you do switch to a vegan diet, you would quite likely need vitamin supplementation (at least I do).

      • lookingforanALFpolycule@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        1 hour ago

        Vitamin B12 (if you don’t eat any vegan meat and cheese substitutes since those are often fortified), vitamin D (everyone should supplement this, not just vegans) and iron if you’re pregnant.

    • Pommes_für_dein_Balg@feddit.orgEnglish
      152·
      13 hours ago

      Fun fact: People who eat meat from factory farming (virtually every meat eater) also rely on vitamin supplementation.
      Only with extra steps: The cattle get the supplements. Cause they don’t graze on lush natural meadows anymore, they’re fed mostly corn.

      • binux@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        62·
        9 hours ago

        You do realize that meat-eaters usually aren’t subsisting solely off of meat, right? They don’t need to rely on vitamin supplementation, that’s the whole point of a balanced diet. If they eat all the stuff that’s important on a regular enough basis, they’ll be fine even if you take the supplements away from farm animals.

        Cause they don’t graze on lush natural meadows anymore, they’re fed mostly corn.

        This is too localized of a point, in Canada for example the diets of farm animals are regulated to consist of much more than just corn. Admittedly I’m not sure about other countries, though I’m sure there are others similar in that regard.

        • Pommes_für_dein_Balg@feddit.orgEnglish
          5·
          8 hours ago

          Granted, I should have limited my statement to B12.
          One of the main arguments against veganism is that it isn’t “natural” cause you need B12 supplements and there’s no way around that.
          But farm animals usually also get B12 supplements because the bacteria that actually produces it (and then puts it in the grass) only lives in natural soil.
          So only cattle who can actually graze will get it. If they are fed from industrially made feed, it needs to be supplemented.

  • thiscat@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    123·
    13 hours ago

    im not vegan however i do want that animals would not be treated in the way most industrial farms treat them

      • Passerby6497@lemmy.worldEnglish
        42·
        10 hours ago

        I buy meat from local farmers who treat their animals well, when I choose to eat meat. Most of the time I just don’t eat meat.

        You won’t take cheese and milk from me tho.

        • lookingforanALFpolycule@lemmy.worldEnglish
          12·
          1 hour ago

          Interesting that no one sees themselves as the 1% yet simultaneously hold the belief they eat the 1% of animals that are not factory farmed.

        • bushparty@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          41·
          7 hours ago

          What do you think happens to dairy cows after they stop producing milk? Your cheese and milk still fuels the system. It’s fine if you want to do that but don’t pretend they’re not interconnected systems.

  • Ek-Hou-Van-Braai@piefed.socialEnglish
    182·
    16 hours ago

    Devils Advocate: Some reasons outweigh others.

    The list of why you should never get on a airplane is also very long.

    • VeganMama434@libretechni.caOPEnglish
      2313·
      16 hours ago

      Most common reason and arguably the real reason for most people not wanting to be vegan:

      “But meat tastes so good, and I neeeed my pRoTEiN”

      • Pommes_für_dein_Balg@feddit.orgEnglish
        101·
        8 hours ago

        My reason is that I tried it, after focusing my attention on researching micronutrients for weeks, making an elaborate meal plan that covers everything, and taking supplements.
        After 4 weeks, I felt hungry no matter how much I ate, and then I found a tuft of my hair in the shower sink.
        I then ate a blue rare steak and it felt like a rush of euphoria and relief. I was giggling while I ate.

        I don’t know what I was missing, but after so much research I was pretty sure I couldn’t figure it out.
        So now I’m a “weekday vegan” + an occasional piece of blue cheese, meat or liver, and I’m feeling fine.

      • Ek-Hou-Van-Braai@piefed.socialEnglish
        152·
        16 hours ago

        Same is true for Flying:

        “Sure Flying burns huge amounts of fuel, releases greenhouse gases high in the atmosphere, and contributes to the climate damage, but my holidays and travel time is more important”

          • Ek-Hou-Van-Braai@piefed.socialEnglish
            135·
            14 hours ago

            And calling out some hypocrisies.

            Most people are only willing to make sacrifices for animals/the-environment as long as it suites their lifestyle.

            OMG I’ll never eat fish that’s murder. 😡

            12h+ flight flight to go on holiday 🥺👉👈 Whoopsie

            • azezeB@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
              182·
              14 hours ago

              I’m not vegan or vegeterian. But I feel like that “unless you are doing both” is kinda a wrong argument to make, even almost bad faith.

              Because i could say “ah so you are anti work abuse? Curious, you are using a phone made by leveraging abuse”

              I think a more honest argument would be to weight the possibilities and the outcomes.

              Producing meat does increase the carbon footprint, and the same can be said for flying.

              The idea is, how much can beign vegan reduce this footprint, and how much removing unnecessary flights can save? So overall, how much i am saving doing one of those, instead of both?

              Also, eating is an everyday activity, flying usually isn’t (in the example you reported)

              I have no answers, i just didn’t like the argument

              • Ek-Hou-Van-Braai@piefed.socialEnglish
                42·
                14 hours ago

                Fair enough,

                The point I’m trying to make is there are many ways to live more ethically, If you’re a vegan but fly a private jet, you don’t give a fuck about the environment, you’re just pretending you do.

                You could also not be a vegan and care more about the environment than a lot of vegans.

                I knew a militant vegan who removed the emissions filter from his diesel car, and tuned it to ‘roll coal’ (emit tons of smoke) because he thought it was cool.

                There’s a lot of nuance

                • azezeB@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
                  3·
                  12 hours ago

                  Yeah we can agree on that one, of course cognitive dissonance is a thing so it’s ok to point it out. (I love animals but i eat meat, so I’m a perfect example)

                  The important thing is trying to remain civil, and looking for a discussion, rather than trying to dunk on one idea or the other (this in particular to vegans too)

                • Don't forget to stay hydrated.🍉🍉🍉🍉🍉@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                  31·
                  12 hours ago

                  fly a private jet,

                  Whom on Lemmy does that apply to?
                  Anyway, the point being made here is to make better decisions where reasonably possible. If you dive deep enough, absolutely nothing is fully ethical.

                  Like cleaning up your drive. You have little storage left, so you do a scan with Filelight.
                  Do you care about:
                  a) 1,000 20KiB config files
                  b) 40GiB pacman cache
                  c) 50GiB of music

                  You can probably just get rid of pacman cache, but with the size, you might just as well get rid of your music, no? What’s the point of removing pacman cache if your music is worse?

  • Berengaria_of_Navarre@lemmy.worldEnglish
    219·
    16 hours ago

    It’s expensive, I like cheese, I like baked goods that don’t involve chickpea water, I occasionally like meat, I like mead, all vegan cheese is truly awful.

    Also any meat substitutes are always substituents for highly processed fast food which I don’t eat anyway. As far as I’m aware there’s no vegan alternative to coffee encrusted venison with a red wine reduction.

    Also don’t get me wrong, I do eat vegan food, I’m just not prepared to exist exclusively on it.

    Also eating meat doesn’t make you a bad person. There are like 8 people in the world whose company I can tolerate for more than a few minutes and two of them are obligate carnivores.

    • terranoid@lemmy.cafeEnglish
      213·
      16 hours ago

      It’s really not more expensive unless you’re doing stuff like, quitting hot dogs then eating vegan special hot dogs, or buying vegan branded goods, or eating out at vegan branded restaurants, or tons of vegan ground beef and cheese. You would want to make more whole food recipes that use cheap ingredients.

      In fact it’s way cheaper if you’re making beans and rice and veggies from scratch. It’s essentially the cheapest diet you can have if you do it that way. Poor diets are usually beans and rice, or lentils and stuff like that. And not canned beans, but make beans in a crock pot or something.

      A little bit of meal prep goes a very long way at making it the cheapest diet you can eat while still having good nutrition and protein. I’ll cook up two pounds of dry black or pinto beans and eat it throughout the week. Doesn’t take much effort at all either, especially with an instant pot.

      • Berengaria_of_Navarre@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3·
        12 hours ago

        True enough. I do eat a lot of beans and stuff and on occasion tofu, tempeh, and other such things. But I don’t like them enough to completely cut animal products from my diet. The same way that I wouldn’t cut beans from my diet to eat meat every day. I do try to stick to what I consider more ethical sources of meat (if I can afford it).

    • Zizzy@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      4·
      10 hours ago

      Yeah, ive reduced my meat intake so most days i eat no meat at all, and when I do its only one meal a day that has mest in it generally. And the meat i do eat is like 85% chicken 10% fish 5% other. Drink only oat milk. But i cannot give cheese up :(

      I dont intend to go vegan anyways though. Not in our current society, with the options and prices etcetc. But i also dont actually think eating meat is inherently immoral. And esp not drinking milk or eating cheese. I do think the conditions we currently have causing them to suffer is. And the ecological ramifications are immense.

      People love to pretend eating vegan is so easy. But youre absolutely going to be giving up time, effort, and money to make that diet work while also culling a lot of things you enjoy that make you happy.

    • als@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      152·
      15 hours ago

      Vegan food is cheaper because instead of growing soy and using it to raise a whole animal then kill and process it, the soy just feeds people instead.

      • Ek-Hou-Van-Braai@piefed.socialEnglish
        72·
        15 hours ago

        I can get 100g of protein from chicken or fish for dirt cheap, and it’s delicious.

        What would be the cheapest way to get 100g of protein from vegan options?

        • Ephera@lemmy.mlEnglish
          2·
          8 hours ago

          You can also often get TVP for pretty cheap, as it’s a byproduct of vegetable oil production. Might be sold as “soy chunks” or similar.

          In particular, you can prepare it to be chewy like a steak, which I was somewhat missing from other vegan foods…

        • Shellofbiomatter@lemmus.orgEnglish
          121·
          13 hours ago

          That seems to be a nice article https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/protein-for-vegans-vegetarians#beans

          First easiest replacements seem to be lentils and beans, though not as high protein content as chicken breast or just protein powder. Products were primarily chosen based on price, cheapest available and as equal terms as possible. Excluded fish(tuna and salmon) as I’m lazy and the price of those already ranges in 12-17€/kg on the low end and protein content isn’t that much higher than chicken.

          Beans 100g, 121cal/0,7g fat/17g carbs/8g protein. 4,65€/kg

          Lentils 100g, 119cal/1g fat/15g carbs/8g protein. 4,13€/kg Both were chosen stored in salt water for easier comparison as oddly beans are only available in salt water, canned or frozen while lentils are primarily available as dried goods.

          Chicken breast 100g 104cal/1,6g fat/0,3 carbs/22g protein. 7,99€/kg

          Whey protein powder 100g 417cal/7g fats/5,5g carbs/80g protein. 33,3€/kg

          You have to replace prices yourself based on your location and on availability.

          Surprisingly per kg, lentils and beans are cheaper. Though to get 100g of protein, id say below minimum requirement, more are required.

          Beans 1,25kg of beans to get 100g of protein, in addition 8,7g fat, 212g carbs, 1512cal. Total price 5,81€.

          Lentils. 1,25kg for 100g of protein, in addition 12,5g fat, 187g carbs, 1487cal. Total price 5,16€.

          Chicken breast, 454g for 100g of protein, in addition 7,2g fat, 1,3g of carbs. 472 cal. Total price 3,62€.

          Protein powder 125g for 100g of protein. In addition 8,7g fat. 6,2g carbs. 521cal. Total price 4,16€

          Well, chicken breast is the cheapest source of protein, but protein powder is the least volume so probably easiest to consume.

          Though chicken breast and protein powder would need some source of carbs to accompany it which would increase the price of total meal, but beans and lentils wouldn’t.

          So we get back to the original point of having varied diet and it should be good enough. No point to add extra layer of complexity for minimal difference to an activity that’s already annoying enough by leaning towards any extreme.

        • idiomaddict@lemmy.worldEnglish
          131·
          14 hours ago

          Seitan powder. You can get 100g of protein for less than a dollar, and it tastes however you want it to. I tend to add some better than bouillon and a little oil to the mixture (still less than a dollar) before steaming it, then use it like deli meat or spam, but there are a lot of different techniques and you can use whatever’s best for you.

          • Ek-Hou-Van-Braai@piefed.socialEnglish
            61·
            14 hours ago

            You’d need ~1.2kg of beans for that

            That’s 3 cans, where I live that costs a lot more than 400g of chicken. And it would suck to eat that much beans.

            • Hazel@piefed.blahaj.zoneEnglish
              71·
              14 hours ago

              400g of chicken costs €4,90 here.

              Canned kidney beans would be €3,25 for 1,25kgs, dried it would only cost you €2,90.

              Don’t know how crazy US meat subsidies are, but here it’s definitely still cheaper to get protein from plants 🤷🏼

              Edit: Dried chickpeas are just €2,- for the same amount of protein, weird. And those are the organic ones, probably still way cheaper in bulk.