Unfortunately people respond differently to hunger.
Someone I know is trying to lose weight. Problem is, if they go ~100 kcal below maintenance they turn into a stress eater. ~200 below and they are unable to stop themselves from eating 400 kcal worth of food straight or of the fridge at night. All that on top of being hangry all day.
So losing weight means balancing the diet very carefully because that’s not much space between eating enough to maintain the weight and eating so little that hunger overrides reason and overcompensates.
For other people going below maintenance is just kinda uncomfortable but easily doable for a couple days. Advice like “just eat less” actually works for them without having to make a whole science out of it.
Yeah but that is how you lose weight. It’s one thing to be unwilling to do it because of a mental block. It’s another thing entirely to impart that mental block on others as a way of feeling better about their own shortcomings.
It’s quite important that you do not make the mistake of thinking that if you tell someone it is easy to do, because you find it easy to do, that does not make it easy for them to do.
With a kid, for example, you can tell them this and they will believe that it’s easy for everyone, then try it and fail, and suddenly believe they are fucking stupid and it must be their fault entirely. Which makes them feel bad. Which might make them eat more, or become anorexic, or any one of a number of eating disorders.
So instead, realise that there are many factors here beyond energy in and activity out. Those are important, but not the whole story. Be kind, and take your time.
It’s true. I remember when I could go most of the day without eating and feel nothing but minor hunger, which was easy to ignore.
But now I’m in my 30s, and if I try to skip lunch it’s like my entire body goes into revolt. Lethargy, headaches, mood changes, the works. My metabolism has changed with age and now the effects of blood sugar actually pack a punch.
People always underestimate the endocrine system. Your frontal cortex and everything that you are is basically just a tool for your endocrine system to use to get food and sex.
It’s why eating less is so hard for some people. If the endocrine system is being pushy, it can just make you not care about your goal, and not many people can do something uncomfortable that they don’t want to do in furtherance of a goal they don’t care about.
Healthy, stable eating habits need to come before weight loss eating habits, and that needs to be paired with light excercise as you build up.
Like taming a wild animal. Some people just have a capybara, and others have some sort of ocelot that’s addicted to meth. Most people have dogs. Gotta ease in, but once you get started it’s fine as long as you don’t traumatize the poor beastie.
True. Also don’t underestimate your gut microbiome. Those bacteria and fungi can have a distressing amount of control over you and if your microbiome is out of whack it can make it much more difficult to develop decent eating habits.
Sounds easy but we’re deep in “draw the rest of the fucking owl” territory here.
For some people the threshold for healthy eating habits is low. I have to actively try to gain weight and I can handle slight hunger well so for me very little would have to change on a diet.
That person I mentioned, on the other hand, has to pre-plan their nutrition for a week down to the macronutrients of each single meal, just like a bodybuilder. A planning mistake will most likely result in binge eating. And yes, they would eat half a loaf of full-grain bread at night if nothing else was there.
So for someone like them advice like “have some self control and don’t buy junk food” is about as helpful as “have you tried not being poor”. Getting their endocrine system and gut microbiome to accept anything below maintenance calories is a long and nontrivial journey.
No s"t Sherlock. Doesn’t really change the fact that this is much easier to achieve than for others, before we are even talking about will power. Some people can eat much more at the same workout level as others, without gaining weight. No contradiction with thermodynamics needed.
Strawman. I was saying no such thing, merely that for some it is harder than for others. Just like some would starve to dewth in a famine sooner than others at identical feed intake and rate of activity.
This is no excuse for anything, just a fact. People can gave an influence on that, no matter the genes.
You were claiming I was spreading “doomer mentality of “I can’t do anything to lose weight it’s my genetics””
That is false, I did no such thing. I merely stated the fact that metabolisms and especially regulation differ and some have to climb a steeper hill than others to get to the same peak. Harder doesn’t mean impossible.
I was such an asshole after I dropped 100 pounds in my 20s. I did it, you can too!
I was such a dick. I had actual anger towards fat folks for a few years.
Its like being mad folks are poor, just, knock it off. None of these comments actually help people lose weight. It actually scares them off further into the downward spiral. Lest not forget age gets us all, and you dont know what these people have been through, or are going through. You dont know.
My country, the shit stain one, they dont allow citizens to walk anywhere. Start there. I stayed fit when I could walk/bike places. Once I moved somewhere carcentric, guess what happened. Im not a dick to fat folks anymore.
Its not so black and white. The older I get, the more I realize its systemic, at least here in the god forsaken states.
remain positive, internal work is internal, and you cant make choicss for others. I wanted to give fitness to everyone when I was younger. But not everyone is brave enough to ride a bike in car city. I still get mad when I see parents giving their fat children candy. Sets them up for a lifetine of failure. I used to have my gaurdian lock me in a room, call me fat bitch, and literally throw a bag of mcdonalds at me in my teens.
you never know what someone has been through. Always kindness.
Telling people they need to eat less to lose weight isn’t unkind. These truths only push people who already are unwilling to accept reality further into delusion. I’m not sympathetic to those people.
Our bodies have evolved to protect against weight loss. We like to think we’re modern, enlightened creatures, but we’re still a collection of biological processes that are centred around survival in an unforgiving world. Most of us no longer live in that world.
As a result, when we diet our bodies trigger processes that limit the effects of nutritional deficit. And sure, we’ll lose weight to start with, but that hits a plateau surprisingly quickly as our metabolism catches up.
Then add into that things like ADHD (which is something affects me personally), whereby when weight loss slows to a crawl after a few weeks I get frustrated and lose interest in keeping it up. So I’m 140kg with no sign of that going anywhere any time soon.
This is textbook cope. “I won’t do the thing because it’s technically not the most 100% efficient way so imma be 140 forever” I’ve got ADHD too bud. It’s possible to fast for 3 days a week.
The metabolic effect you’re describing is called “starvation mode” by a lot of people and while its technically real its actually quite a bit smaller than most people think, and can easily be countered by adding a work out to your routine. If you think youre not losing weight because of it, (or gaining weight, as some people claim) I would bet you’re actually not counting all your calories throughout the day.
You might lose weight just not in the region where you want it. Genetics might make you lose muscle mass, bone quality long before you lose fat. Also it might make you at the same time store everything as fat when you take an energy defecit diet.
Muscle mass is directly tied to how much you use the muscle. You can eat 100 protein bars and you won’t gain any muscle mass. Likewise if you continue your current level of exercise while fasting you are gonna keep the muscle and lose the fat.
Muscle mass is directly tied to how much you use the muscle.
I’d describe it more as a loose correlation rather than “directly tied.” There’s the obvious example of sex differences, where a typical untrained woman will not respond as quickly to weight training as a typical untrained man of similar size. There’s a lot of individual variation, too, and more recent research is revealing new insights into high and low responders to resistance training. See, for example, this review.
I learned to be less of a dick to others about this stuff when I learned I was an outlier high responder in muscle strength and growth, getting much better results from near identical workouts with some of my friends. Realizing that I was lucky helped me extend some more grace to others.
Zero muscle loss while on a signifcant calorie deficit to cause noticeable and sustained weekly weightless simply isn’t possible without the right sort of steroids like tren.
The best you can do is to minimise the amount you lose with the right amount of training, rest and quality macros. Ask any successful bodybuilder after making them take a piss test for roids what their losses were for their last cut.
you just missed the entire point i was making… yes, energy in < energy out means losing weight. BUT reducing energy intake is more difficult for some people than for others due to their genetics.
Yes and regardless of any of those factors if your energy intake is below your energy usage you’ll lose weight.
Unfortunately people respond differently to hunger.
Someone I know is trying to lose weight. Problem is, if they go ~100 kcal below maintenance they turn into a stress eater. ~200 below and they are unable to stop themselves from eating 400 kcal worth of food straight or of the fridge at night. All that on top of being hangry all day.
So losing weight means balancing the diet very carefully because that’s not much space between eating enough to maintain the weight and eating so little that hunger overrides reason and overcompensates.
For other people going below maintenance is just kinda uncomfortable but easily doable for a couple days. Advice like “just eat less” actually works for them without having to make a whole science out of it.
Yeah but that is how you lose weight. It’s one thing to be unwilling to do it because of a mental block. It’s another thing entirely to impart that mental block on others as a way of feeling better about their own shortcomings.
It’s quite important that you do not make the mistake of thinking that if you tell someone it is easy to do, because you find it easy to do, that does not make it easy for them to do.
With a kid, for example, you can tell them this and they will believe that it’s easy for everyone, then try it and fail, and suddenly believe they are fucking stupid and it must be their fault entirely. Which makes them feel bad. Which might make them eat more, or become anorexic, or any one of a number of eating disorders.
So instead, realise that there are many factors here beyond energy in and activity out. Those are important, but not the whole story. Be kind, and take your time.
Yeah and I haven’t said it was easy I just said it’s how you do it
It’s true. I remember when I could go most of the day without eating and feel nothing but minor hunger, which was easy to ignore.
But now I’m in my 30s, and if I try to skip lunch it’s like my entire body goes into revolt. Lethargy, headaches, mood changes, the works. My metabolism has changed with age and now the effects of blood sugar actually pack a punch.
People always underestimate the endocrine system. Your frontal cortex and everything that you are is basically just a tool for your endocrine system to use to get food and sex.
It’s why eating less is so hard for some people. If the endocrine system is being pushy, it can just make you not care about your goal, and not many people can do something uncomfortable that they don’t want to do in furtherance of a goal they don’t care about.
Healthy, stable eating habits need to come before weight loss eating habits, and that needs to be paired with light excercise as you build up.
Like taming a wild animal. Some people just have a capybara, and others have some sort of ocelot that’s addicted to meth. Most people have dogs. Gotta ease in, but once you get started it’s fine as long as you don’t traumatize the poor beastie.
True. Also don’t underestimate your gut microbiome. Those bacteria and fungi can have a distressing amount of control over you and if your microbiome is out of whack it can make it much more difficult to develop decent eating habits.
Changing to healthier eating habits will make managing hunger easier. Also self control and just not keeping easy junk food around.
Sounds easy but we’re deep in “draw the rest of the fucking owl” territory here.
For some people the threshold for healthy eating habits is low. I have to actively try to gain weight and I can handle slight hunger well so for me very little would have to change on a diet.
That person I mentioned, on the other hand, has to pre-plan their nutrition for a week down to the macronutrients of each single meal, just like a bodybuilder. A planning mistake will most likely result in binge eating. And yes, they would eat half a loaf of full-grain bread at night if nothing else was there.
So for someone like them advice like “have some self control and don’t buy junk food” is about as helpful as “have you tried not being poor”. Getting their endocrine system and gut microbiome to accept anything below maintenance calories is a long and nontrivial journey.
No s"t Sherlock. Doesn’t really change the fact that this is much easier to achieve than for others, before we are even talking about will power. Some people can eat much more at the same workout level as others, without gaining weight. No contradiction with thermodynamics needed.
By all means keep spreading the doomer mentality of “I can’t do anything to lose weight it’s my genetics”
Strawman. I was saying no such thing, merely that for some it is harder than for others. Just like some would starve to dewth in a famine sooner than others at identical feed intake and rate of activity.
This is no excuse for anything, just a fact. People can gave an influence on that, no matter the genes.
Not understanding what you’re saying doesn’t mean I’m making a straw man argument lol
You were claiming I was spreading “doomer mentality of “I can’t do anything to lose weight it’s my genetics””
That is false, I did no such thing. I merely stated the fact that metabolisms and especially regulation differ and some have to climb a steeper hill than others to get to the same peak. Harder doesn’t mean impossible.
You’re still just failing to understand what you’re saying while dancing in a circle pointing at it
You are failing to make an argument at all. come back when you manage to formulate a concrete argument.
Pulling the buzzword “straw man” straight out of year 10 debate club isn’t an argument either! And you made it first!
I was such an asshole after I dropped 100 pounds in my 20s. I did it, you can too!
I was such a dick. I had actual anger towards fat folks for a few years.
Its like being mad folks are poor, just, knock it off. None of these comments actually help people lose weight. It actually scares them off further into the downward spiral. Lest not forget age gets us all, and you dont know what these people have been through, or are going through. You dont know.
My country, the shit stain one, they dont allow citizens to walk anywhere. Start there. I stayed fit when I could walk/bike places. Once I moved somewhere carcentric, guess what happened. Im not a dick to fat folks anymore.
Its not so black and white. The older I get, the more I realize its systemic, at least here in the god forsaken states.
remain positive, internal work is internal, and you cant make choicss for others. I wanted to give fitness to everyone when I was younger. But not everyone is brave enough to ride a bike in car city. I still get mad when I see parents giving their fat children candy. Sets them up for a lifetine of failure. I used to have my gaurdian lock me in a room, call me fat bitch, and literally throw a bag of mcdonalds at me in my teens.
you never know what someone has been through. Always kindness.
Telling people they need to eat less to lose weight isn’t unkind. These truths only push people who already are unwilling to accept reality further into delusion. I’m not sympathetic to those people.
Do you honestly, seriously believe anyone trying to lose weight doesn’t know that you need to eat less to achieve that?
Really??
Well, one of the factors makes it hard to know what your actual caloric intake is. You are right, but it’s not quite as simple as you make it sound.
Simple does not mean easy.
If I could accurately monitor both calorie intake and expenditure … that sure would simplify things.
Imagine trying to balance your bank account where you only have estimates of your income and expenditures.
Our bodies have evolved to protect against weight loss. We like to think we’re modern, enlightened creatures, but we’re still a collection of biological processes that are centred around survival in an unforgiving world. Most of us no longer live in that world.
As a result, when we diet our bodies trigger processes that limit the effects of nutritional deficit. And sure, we’ll lose weight to start with, but that hits a plateau surprisingly quickly as our metabolism catches up.
Then add into that things like ADHD (which is something affects me personally), whereby when weight loss slows to a crawl after a few weeks I get frustrated and lose interest in keeping it up. So I’m 140kg with no sign of that going anywhere any time soon.
This is textbook cope. “I won’t do the thing because it’s technically not the most 100% efficient way so imma be 140 forever” I’ve got ADHD too bud. It’s possible to fast for 3 days a week.
It’s not cope, it’s biology.
Yes… biology you are using as an excuse to not do something, hence cope.
Youre so mean
I prefer the term naughty
The metabolic effect you’re describing is called “starvation mode” by a lot of people and while its technically real its actually quite a bit smaller than most people think, and can easily be countered by adding a work out to your routine. If you think youre not losing weight because of it, (or gaining weight, as some people claim) I would bet you’re actually not counting all your calories throughout the day.
You might lose weight just not in the region where you want it. Genetics might make you lose muscle mass, bone quality long before you lose fat. Also it might make you at the same time store everything as fat when you take an energy defecit diet.
Muscle mass is directly tied to how much you use the muscle. You can eat 100 protein bars and you won’t gain any muscle mass. Likewise if you continue your current level of exercise while fasting you are gonna keep the muscle and lose the fat.
I’d describe it more as a loose correlation rather than “directly tied.” There’s the obvious example of sex differences, where a typical untrained woman will not respond as quickly to weight training as a typical untrained man of similar size. There’s a lot of individual variation, too, and more recent research is revealing new insights into high and low responders to resistance training. See, for example, this review.
I learned to be less of a dick to others about this stuff when I learned I was an outlier high responder in muscle strength and growth, getting much better results from near identical workouts with some of my friends. Realizing that I was lucky helped me extend some more grace to others.
Zero muscle loss while on a signifcant calorie deficit to cause noticeable and sustained weekly weightless simply isn’t possible without the right sort of steroids like tren.
The best you can do is to minimise the amount you lose with the right amount of training, rest and quality macros. Ask any successful bodybuilder after making them take a piss test for roids what their losses were for their last cut.
https://www.fitnessnetwork.com.au/does-fasting-burn-fat-or-muscle/
Fat goes first, muscle mass loss is limited to negligible and can be countered by exercise as I originally said.
Actual scientific studies not Facebook slop please.
For pro body builders the holy grail of cutting is zero muscle loss and not one achieves it without chemical help, not one.
Okay, you first.
Really? You making the outlandish claim boss, 100% because you looked and couldn’t find anything
First fucking result, showing loss of muscle and bone: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(24)00272-9/abstract
That’s an article about weight loss drugs not fasting. Not the brightest are you.
you just missed the entire point i was making… yes, energy in < energy out means losing weight. BUT reducing energy intake is more difficult for some people than for others due to their genetics.
Water has weight… Not eating as much causes stress which causes water retention. Nothing is guaranteed.