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Group of men it’s a bit iffy, especially if they’re on the piss.
Dude alone nah all good, frankly if I was alone at night I’d prefer someone calling out like “y’alright?” than just assuming everything is good and I’m gonna be safe.
That’s the issue with all these “speaking with authority for an entire group” type posts. You don’t have that authority, especially when you discount cultural differences.
Sorry if I’m breaking rules but it’s tough to do sometimes as a big guy walking alone. If I’m walking to my car in a parking garage or down a sidewalk and see a woman walking in front of me, I’ll intentionally scuff my shoe or cough to announce my presence quietly. It’s a bit of a catch-22 when you want to say “ I’m not a threat just going home” without sounding like you are a threat.
I legitimately don’t know what to do sometimes, keep walking silently or announce and acknowledge
You knew you weren’t supposed to post here, that you could post to any other community, and still decided to invade our space?
Maybe we’re here because we don’t feel like giving advice to men. Go find it somewhere else.
Oh get a grip.
There’s literally a post in asklemmy asking the same question.
Oh look, another fucking idiot.
I posted looking for discussion, seems like something that could be addressed if talked about more but you’re right, there are other spaces and I apologize for the intrusion. Cheers
It’s fine Ford thanks for understanding and have a good week ❤️
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What.
“Teach other men to walk like you, eyes down not on women.” Or something like that idk lol
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Check the sidebar, rule 1.
Oh shit, sorry. Will delete.
What is the point of self censoring ourselves? What are we, children?
The screenshot came like that.
Always one of ya in every comment section.
What if I’m 6’ 2", work in finance, and have a trust fund?
Then you should read the sidebar. Rule 1.
3” too short and you don’t mention your eye colour. Sorry, but that’s a hard no from me.
Merry Xmas, Patrick!
Especially, I know it’s you patrick
Jesus Christ today’s men were raised so fucking terribly
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I’ve been out as trans and living openly as a woman for only a few months now.
harrasment & violence
In that time I’ve been sexually harassed, physically threatened, screamed at from cars, had people up in my face, up to and including pushing me over, raising fists to me, screaming slurs and derogatory words at me from inches away from my face, and being sexually assaulted in a crowded public place.
I know much of that can be attributed to transphobia but a lot of is just pure misogyny. Nearly every time I leave the house some man will aggressively intrude into my day and make me feel extremely unsafe. This is in response to me literally just walking around saying nothing, looking at the floor.
I always knew that women had a justified fear of men. Now I have it too. Whatever I thought I understood before from listening to women, it’s nothing compared to what it’s like to live it.
I’m not sure how well this might work for a woman, but as a man there is definitely some stuff you can do when traveling and/or walking through dangerous neighbourhoods to avoid being bothered in public. Maybe it’s worth considering, so I’ll just leave it here. It’s not going to reduce it by 100%, but it makes it less likely. I’m not a big or scary looking man, but this advice has served me pretty well.
I’ll start with the tourist example because it might be the most obvious. Tourists are usually more likely to be mugged or scammed, because they can make easy victims. One way you can spot them, is if they have a backpack, are walking with their phone in their hand, and seem to not know exactly where they are going. If someone is walking confidently, has no backpack, and their phone is put away, you probably wouldn’t know they are tourists.
So now let’s translate that. If you are walking through a dangerous neighbourhood, or even just in the street, the last thing you want is to look like easy prey for people who like to bully others, beat people up, or muggers. Ways you can do that is, simply, to look like you belong there, and you’re confident in yourself and not afraid. Stand straight and don’t look at the floor. Walk with purpose. You know what you’re doing and have a reason to be there. But that doesn’t mean you should walk stiff, you should still look relaxed. And if you happen to look someone in the eyes, don’t look at the floor if you can help it. Holding eye contact can seem like a threat or invitation to some people, so don’t hold it either, but you should just look to the side (next to them, or behind/beyond them). If you look at the floor after locking eyes they might see it as fear, and decide you’re an easy target.
And of course clothes can also play a part (for tourists, or walking in a bad neighborhood with fancy clothes), but it still helps. I know that from experience.
Again, this isn’t a silver bullet, and I’m not sure how well it translates for women, but I think it’s worth considering.
EDIT: Just want to add an edit to say: you don’t have to default to rudeness on the internet, which is what most unfortunately do online. It’s possible to politely tell someone that they did something wrong. It’s how people usually do it in the real world, it doesn’t have to be different on the internet. People can make mistakes with no ill intention. If you choose rudeness and to be disrespectful, don’t be surprised when people don’t respect you back.
Sweetie I know you mean well but this is a place for women to talk together. We explicitly ask that men don’t comment here. It’s in the rules for this community.
Are you sure the woman you’re talking to came to the women’s community to get a man’s advice?
I don’t know. I don’t claim to speak for all women, and I don’t know this community. I was browsing “All” and I saw this. I read the other comment, and thought I could offer some advice from one human to another.
If I think I might help a woman to suffer less, should I abstain from doing it because men are not welcome? If my advice is ignorant or unhelpful for women, they are free to ignore it. I added a clear disclaimer that my advice might not apply.
That’s your problem for not curating your feed.
You’re not helping anyone. You’re a man in a women’s community giving unsolicited advice to a woman.
You don’t need a disclaimer, you need to shut up and listen.
The “All” page is a feature and meant to be used. Have you considered maybe it’s your problem your problem for creating a community in a federated system, and then posting in it, where anyone can just bump into your post and interact with it? I don’t even look at the community of most posts which show up.
I was going to stop commenting and just leave it there, but if you’re gonna decide to be a condescending dick, I can be a dick as well.
You agreed to adhere to community specific rules when you made an account.
Have you considered maybe it’s your problem your problem for creating a community in a federated system, and then posting in it,
Yeah, it’s women’s problem for having our own community. What the fuck, dude?
No I didn’t? You do know there are different rules for different instances, right?
Read the whole thing. “All” is feature. People are going to come in not knowing the rules and needing to be informed. If that’s a problem for you and you find it so triggering, you can move to a closed off platform.
depends on instance
Have you considered paying attention? You earned whatever you got here.
Ok, and you’ve earned my continued replies by being an asshole 🤷
If I’m not allowed to comment, then I have nothing to lose by being banned, therefore I’ll keep throwing stones back as they are thrown at me.
I don’t claim to speak for all women
not beating the woman lorax allegations
Not sure what that means, but I think maybe you don’t either.
They had actually defended you elsewhere, but you just can’t help but attack women, can you?
Maybe I misunderstood it, but the Lorax is a being that speaks to trees, they seemed to be implying I’m a women Lorax in the mist of two other people throwing stones at me. If it’s not an attack at me, I apologise, but it certainly seemed that way.
It’s always surprised me how many people in the Fediverse will leave comments on a post without reading any of the other comments.
There’s like…multiple conversations that have happened here that made it clear that we don’t want to hear men’s voices in here.
Most of the comments were not here when I saw the post, and noone reads every comment before jumping in.
And it always surprises me how people can’t just say everything in one comment and must make multiple replies. Does that not qualify as spam? Also, you certainly seem to harbor a lot of resentment against men from your replies, but the rules also talk about not hating groups of people. At least I had the excuse of not knowing the rules when I jumped in. What’s your excuse? I have read the rules now, and have stopped engaging, except to the people making the choice to be rude to me when I simply tried to be helpful to some one who is clearly suffering.
Most of the comments were not here when I saw the post,
There were over 60 comments when you first replied 2 hours ago. Please don’t lie.
You know the rules here now. You know you’re breaking them now.
Were they all talking about men not being allowed? Don’t call people liars just because you’re a fool.
Yes, I do. I won’t engage with new posts, or to the original person who kindly replied and let me know this was a women only community.
But in that case I also have nothing to lose from being banned, so why would I be quiet to people choosing to be dicks? If you’re throwing stones, I’m throwing them back. Could have just been like “Hey, maybe you didn’t know but this community is for women only”, and I’d be long gone and you’d have heard nothing from me.
If I think I might help a woman to suffer less, should I abstain from doing it because men are not welcome?
Yes.
, but as a man
UGH
An incel reported that. So please Velma, when men ignore your boundaries and make you uncomfortable you absolutely can’t say anything. Because expressing being unhappy when men disrespect you and cross your boundaries is very, very wrong.
<3
“Whatever I thought I understood before from listening to women, it’s nothing compared to what it’s like to live it.”
I’m reminded of something I read a while back, where a man named Marty accidentally was mistakenly sending emails with his female coworker’s email signature and was puzzled for a while on why people were being so difficult. When he realised it, he and his colleague, Nicole, decided to switch emails for a week, as a more deliberate, extended experiment. They both did a write-up of the experience. Marty’s was a Twitter thread that I can’t access anymore, but Nicole wrote a blog post covering her side
In Nicole’s words:
“Nothing changed, except that our clients read me as male and Marty as female. I had one of the easiest weeks of my professional life. He… didn’t.”
What I found so interesting about this story is that it sounds like this Marty guy was a genuine ally. Like, when Nicole called him out for speaking over her at meetings, he listened and started using his voice to bring attention to Nicole (and other women) at meetings. Iirc from his Twitter thread, he thought of himself as an ally who understood how hard women have it. Until this thing with the email signatures, that is.
I think you’re right that even if some of the harassment you’ve experienced is transphobia related, a lot of it will be misogyny. And I think that part of why trans women are so prominently discussed by transphobes is because of the prevalence of transmisogyny specifically.
Thanks for sharing all that. From my perspective it’s as if women all my life have been telling me about this horrible noise they hear all the time, and I’ve been like “wow that sounds really bad I’m sorry you have to go through that” but until I transitioned I never heard the noise myself and now it’s like “damn you girls were not kidding about that noise holy shit”.
Whoa this is a great analogy.
Yeah, especially early transition (in my experience) the harassment was fucking constant. It probably didn’t help that I was in my early 20s still at the time. But in addition to a lot of these guys just generally being misogynists they tend to target women who look insecure, young, marginalized, etc. Don’t get me wrong, it continues, but I’ve definitely found for me personally the everyday street harassment type stuff waned over the years. Well that or I stopped noticing all but the most egregious examples of it.
Congrats on the transition, unfortunately yeah the prevalence of aggressive misogyny was somewhere between accurate and understated
Thank you lovely, you were one of the first to welcome me here so I’m always happy to see one of your comments.
Also, I will say that I suspect that part of what reduced my harassment was developing a confident look of “I belong here, don’t fuck with me”. I only say this because you mentioned looking at the floor and because it’s advice some badass women gave me years ago that I think really helped.
There’s many styles to that look and you need to find ones that are authentic to you. But harassers are bullies, and some of them won’t bother when they see a target who looks like she isn’t easy pickings to give them the feelings of power they want. I hate feeling like I should say this because it’s really not your fault, but it helped me a lot and I don’t want to leave people without such knowledge.
I’m glad to have made a positive impact!
I’m happy for you, that you’re able to live openly now.
And sorry, yeah. It’s hard to explain to anyone who hasn’t been in the shit. There will be good experiences, too.
I once met the coolest men who were drunkenly celebrating a bachelor party and invited me to join (I was smoking a cigar alone on a beach after a break up) and we became friends, so I try not to close myself off to that kind of thing. At the same time all the shoving and shouting and touching makes it really fucking hard to do that.
I have a ton of great men in my life. Kind and gentle and protective in the right way. I’m not afraid of all men. But yeah the scary stuff happens often enough that I’ve learned to be very careful where I walk, to cluch my keys, to location share etc. It’s just all the stuff that other women have told me about their whole lives. It’s just quite an intense experience to have suddenly been dropped into it all in my 30s.
I don’t envy you at all. But, it is nice to be validated by someone who’s seen the other side.
Good luck out there.
I am so deeply sorry, honey. My heart breaks for you. I hope you know that you don’t ever deserve aaany of that shit! I wish I could bite all their heads off for you and for everyone else these garbage bags harass. :(
I’m sending so much love to you over the Internet. I’m so damn sorry that this has been part of your welcoming to finding and living openly as the woman you are. I don’t even know what to say, it’s just not right!! It’s extra fucked because it’s like, this should be such a joyous time for you, and as usual the assholes ruin it for the decent, innocent people. I hate it so much. I’m all weepy over here for you. I’m sending you big, big Internet hugs, if you want them. 🫂💖
Hey it is actually the most joyous time of my life. For every one negative interaction I have several more positive ones. Warm, open smiles from other women, nods and smiles of queer recognition and solidarity etc. I’m just genuinely so very very happy.
I just wanted to share here because it’s something that I got to see from both sides if you know what I mean. I used to be invisible and now I’m not. And now I understand what that fear feels like, before I used to just hear about from other women.
Thanks for being so kind. I’m really doing okay.
I’m not sure I understand the title of this post. What are you on the fence about?
Telling men to never approach me at night. There are a handful of non-emergency scenarios I’d be alright with, but those largely fall on the men in question to be emotionally intelligent and aware of the situation.
I’ve never had stranger encounters at night end well past “can I buy you a beer” at the bar. I think this is mainly out on the street maybe?
What?
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If we’re walking towards each other going opposite directions on the sidewalk or he’s sitting next to my path, he can say “good evening” (I live in a small city in Germany where this is common), ask me for something (I’m picturing panhandlers or smokers asking for a light), or tell me my shoelaces are untied, but I will definitely get a jolt of fear if a man follows or obviously goes out of his way to approach me at night when I’m alone.
If it’s multiple men, it can be more or less scary, depending on whether they seem sober. More men obviously have an even better chance of overpowering me, but I don’t actually distrust men as a whole, so the more there are in the group, the less likely it is that they’re all down to harm a woman. Of course, once we get up to 8+ men, peer pressure might make it difficult for some to speak up.
If a handsome, seemingly rich man approached me alone at night (for non shoelace/lighter reasons), I would be more concerned, like the other commenters. A) that feels like bait; B) I’m married and uninterested anyway, so it’s not effective bait; C) he’s still capable of overpowering me; and D) he’s less likely to be accepting of a no than a panhandler
If that man was driving, there are no circumstances where it wouldn’t scare me if he approached. Sometimes people are lost and they’ve got no phone battery or atlas, and I can imagine an innocent situation in which someone in a car might seek me out alone at night to ask for directions.
I might even give them, if I could ensure that there was a physical barrier between me and the car so I couldn’t be snatched. It would still definitely give me a shock though.
The single most terrifying thing to me is a white, moneyed young male
Those little shits are used to escaping consequence and dislike the word no.
Yeah, if you clearly and calmly signal your needs before you get too close then sure, no judgment, neighbors helping neighbors and whatnot. Hell, a guy just giving the head nod then staying on his way makes me feel a fair bit safer because he’s communicated “I see you’re there and that you see me”. I’m still afraid because he could be lying about his intentions, but I can keep my distance a bit, stay on alert, and have my hand on my pepper spray while I explain that I have no idea where anything but the transit stop/station is.
The rich guy in the example on the other hand, what the hell does he want from me?
And hell, I distrust a large group of people coming up to me regardless of gender as well as anyone trying to get my attention from a car.
I’m so sick of white cisgender men acting like the most oppressed and persecuted minority on the planet. These days I find it very difficult to respond to people like this rationally without telling them to fuck off and hammer their faces some more.
What do I think? I think the middle message is yet another incel mouthing off because they have a personality that drives women off.
No it is clearly a wondrous man who women overlook cos they are greedy gold digging whores! It is the ONLY reason men are single
Especially not then.
This here. The kind of guy who’s good looking and well-monied accosting lone women at night is very likely exactly the kind of guy who’s most dangerous.
I mean if he’s such a catch, why is he trolling for women who are alone at night instead of being in a relationship already?
My thoughts word for word.
I’ve never been that worried about strangers tbh. All the worst things to ever happen to me were always done by people I trusted and didn’t even think I needed to protect myself from.
But even if I’m not scared, I’m not going to, like, accept a proposition this way, so there’s no point in it. It’s not really a good vibe for getting someone’s number.
